Built Stonehenge + Shrine and STILL didn't get a religion (Immortal)

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Astennu

Warlord
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Oct 4, 2013
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As the title says...Indonesia, Immortal, Small Continents, Epic....

This is the first time this has EVER happened since I picked up GnK. I've gotten a religion in EVERY other game I've played.

My opponents included The Maya, Ethiopia, Arabia and Spain, however there were also a few non religion Civs such as the Shoshone, Greece and Denmark.

I'm going to review the game tonight just to see how 7 Civs got a religion before me even though I had Stonehenge. I'm guessing Natural Wonders, Pantheons and obviously religious buildings (Steles and Pyramids) ensured it.

In the end it wasn't too bad, as Pedro spread Buddhism to my main cities which gave +2 :) to Kandi as well as my favourite follower belief, Religious Community. Being Indonesia I also had a lot of faith generation through Kandi and the first of 3 cities I founded on another continent was next to Mt. Sinai.

I won convincingly, however I really noticed the difference not having tithe made as well as no Feed the World/Swords to Plowshares. (I kinda made up for the lack of income by selling my unique luxuries)

Overall, was an incredibly fun game despite the unfortunate no religion start.
 
The AI could have bought religious city states too.
 
What was your pantheon? Even with Stonehenge I would almost always get a faith pantheon mainly because I always pick Pagodas and I need some early missionaries so I find I need lots of faith.
 
My build order was scout, worker, Stonehenge. I researched mining to chop a couple forests after calendar. I forget what turn I completed it on but I definitely built it as fast as possible given the settings. I then built Temple of Artemis straight after Stonehenge (I know, a very risky move, but ToA just provides so much growth I can't resist) I then built a shrine.

My pantheon was Sun God, as I had 3 Citrus and 2 Bananas near my capital and the same at the spot for my second city. I had a heavy jungle start so there were no faith pantheons to choose from, unless I got God King for the +1 faith.
 
You weren't generating any faith until after maybe T40-45 given your build order. I'd imagine the religious AI's were well ahead by then. Then no Shrine until after ToA. Just not enough early enough on Immortal.
 
Illinus said:
You weren't generating any faith until after maybe T40-45 given your build order. I'd imagine the religious AI's were well ahead by then. Then no Shrine until after ToA. Just not enough early enough on Immortal.
Click to expand...

It usually is enough, I think the AI just got lucky with ruins/religious CS/wonders. Even Pedro got a religion and he only founded 2 cities initially and had no faith generating pantheon nor CS nearby.

Ah well, I least I had good beliefs spread to my main cities regardless :cool:
 
With 4 known religious AIs; OP already had no room for error if he wanted to found a religion.

Plus Alex's City state buying flavor can lead to an early religion if there's a religious state near him as can the Shoshone UU by its RNG deciding to choose a faith ruin.
 
well, if you have 5 religious civs in your game, they'll be guaranteed to found religion before you. after all, 3 cities with stele/maya pyramid is generating more faith than a stonehenge. and if they picked piety, they only need 2 cities. this also not counting faith pantheons.

maybe if the religion limit is above 5, you'll have a chance to found one.
 
joncnunn said:
With 4 known religious AIs; OP already had no room for error if he wanted to found a religion.

Plus Alex's City state buying flavor can lead to an early religion if there's a religious state near him as can the Shoshone UU by its RNG deciding to choose a faith ruin.
Click to expand...

I may have founded one if I built a shrine first, got God King as a pantheon and founded a second city straight after Stonehenge for a shrine.

There were 7 religions to be founded. I expected The Maya, Ethiopia, Arabia and Spain to all found religions before me, and possibly the Shoshone with a nearby NW. However I thought I might have just scraped in for the last or second last religion.

Think I'll just replay the first 100 or so turns and see what happens out of curiosity.
 
Sun God sounds like a reasonable choice, but if you are going to neglect a faith pantheon then its advised to put 2 points in Piety and pumping out a few cities with early shrines.
Other choice could be sacred path if you have jungle & quickly fill out Republic for a free Prophet or use the extra culture for Piety.
 
Oh no! Now you'll be forced to spend your faith points on something actually useful, like great people. There are far worse things than 'missing out' on a religion (for starters I'd have been more annoyed at wonder-failing on SH), though thinking about it, they were mainly removed when early warring was pacified.
 
Crafty Bison said:
Oh no! Now you'll be forced to spend your faith points on something actually useful, like great people. There are far worse things than 'missing out' on a religion (for starters I'd have been more annoyed at wonder-failing on SH), though thinking about it, they were mainly removed when early warring was pacified.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say Religion is not useful. My production was fine as I had RC spread to my cities, but I did notice the gold and growth lost from not having Tithe and Feed the World.

It worked out well as I had plenty of faith to buy GE

Ended up building SH, Toa, Porcelain Tower, Leaning Tower, Eiffell Tower, Kremlin AND Statue of Liberty (I love changing Ideology and getting 2 Ideology Wonders) Big Ben, Brandenburg Gate, Neuschwanstein, Hubble Space Telescope, Sydney Opera House, CN Tower, Pentagon and Great Firewall.
 
Religion and faith generation is only useful if you've got a good belief system to pump it into. The Candi is still going to be useful in this situation I suppose because you got the plus 2 happiness belief from it (fortunately in this case!) but the excess faith generation wouldn't have been useful to you until after the INdustrial era where you can start purchasing GP with it.

I usually get annoyed if I don't found a religion - but I try and remember you cant win a game with faith alone.
 
yeah, every time I neglect a faith pantheon without going piety I have trouble. Immortal can just be real tough--lots of ppl beeline religions. And the +5 off stonehenge isn't as significant as piety and two cities with faith buildings or a faith CS/wonder early. You had a good faith later but not soon enough to win the race this time. sorry man.
 
Astennu said:
This is the first time this has EVER happened since I picked up GnK. I've gotten a religion in EVERY other game I've played.

(...)

I won convincingly, however I really noticed the difference not having tithe made as well as no Feed the World/Swords to Plowshares.
Click to expand...

Getting used to always founding a Religion with your fauvorite beliefs is as bad a habit as getting used to always getting any Wonder you want.

Every time you go up in difficulty level you'll be getting less of each so the sooner you learn how to deal with it the better. Unless you like to restart your games a lot. :)

On immortal it is not recommended at all to try very hard and spend resources on Religion unless you're 100% sure you can get one with :c5faith: pantheon or your civs Unique Ability.

Astennu said:
My build order was scout, worker, Stonehenge. I researched mining to chop a couple forests after calendar.

(...)

I then built Temple of Artemis straight after Stonehenge.
Click to expand...

Yep, trying real hard there. I know early wonders are tempting but as others pointed out Stonehenge is a gamble since it doesn't give you any :c5faith: before Turn 40 (or whatever you finish it) and trying to get *both* SH and TA is just asking for trouble (no military at all...).

You'd get better consistent results if you forgo Ancient Wonders completely and instead spend :c5production: on more universal items, like getting more than 1 scout (!), Shrine (pantheons are good) and some Archers for defense.
 
I usually only build Stonehenge under a few circumstances. I have resources like stone and deer, then that's one thing. If I have them, then hoping I get a pantheon, I'll go for the monument to the gods belief. Doing this effectively shaves off around 15 turns for me, but I'll only do it on those circumstances.
 
Crafty Bison said:
Oh no! Now you'll be forced to spend your faith points on something actually useful, like great people. There are far worse things than 'missing out' on a religion (for starters I'd have been more annoyed at wonder-failing on SH), though thinking about it, they were mainly removed when early warring was pacified.
Click to expand...

This is the way I think. Unless my starting position cries out for a particular pantheon and I get it, I don't focus on founding a religion. I'd rather let the religion mad AIs flood my territory with missionaries and prophets than spend the game playing corral the preacher. Without a religion you potentially have access to all the faith purchases (except reformation based) and you never have to worry about unwanted prophet spawning or the diplomatic complications that come from trying to defend and spread a religion.
 
Yeah its not a complete loss. For one thing you prevented another Civ from getting Stonehenge so that weakens their faith generation.
The bonus faith per turn will allow you to buy an extra Great Person in the late game. That is essentially a Leaning Tower Wonder....
The Great Engineer Point can also be used to give you a free mid-game Wonder.

Wonders can also be enhanced by certain Social Policies & World Council Resolutions.
So yeah its frustrating but its not a complete loss.

If there's a Civ that has a good religion maybe with Jesuit Education send trade routes to all their cities or Capture their missionaries & convert your cities. Without worrying about Founder beliefs you can switch religions quite freely to get particular benefits. But its best to do this early. Once you get into the Renaissance the faith cost of buildings really increases.
So sometimes it can be worthwhile to delay researching a renaissance technology until you're satisfied you have purchased the religious buildings you need & have converted your cities to the religion that most suites your needs.
 
Astennu said:
My build order was scout, worker, Stonehenge. I researched mining to chop a couple forests after calendar. I forget what turn I completed it on but I definitely built it as fast as possible given the settings. I then built Temple of Artemis straight after Stonehenge (I know, a very risky move, but ToA just provides so much growth I can't resist) I then built a shrine.

My pantheon was Sun God, as I had 3 Citrus and 2 Bananas near my capital and the same at the spot for my second city. I had a heavy jungle start so there were no faith pantheons to choose from, unless I got God King for the +1 faith.
Click to expand...

If you want to get a decent pantheon (and found a religion) on immortal you should build the shrine asap. i.e. research pottery first then switch production to shrine as soon as the research completes.
 
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