Middle-Earth:Lord of the Mods (XI)

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Hello,

Hmmmmm again. bother, as it seems as if people generally like option 1. liked option 2 better! will work on option one.

PCH, I think that I asked this before, but we are going to have more advanced unit lines than those posted above, right? just wanted to make sure.

Oh, and while you mentioned non-era techs, I had a general modding question. If one civ is given a non-era tech, does it get all its prerequisites? F.E. Gondor. It has the tech Being Gondorian assigned with its other two free techs in the base civ tab. This serves as a prerequisite for a tech such as Stewards in the 3rd era which gives a government and perhaps a civ specific wonder.
The prerequisite of Being Gondorian is Being Good Mannish, which allows some other techs specific to good men, perhaps giving some building or military techs.
The prequisite of Being Good Mannish is Being Good, which allows a later forest planting tech, or something like that.

So what I am asking is, does assigning a civ Being Gondorian give access to all the other techs before it? I suppose an easy test would be to put republic as a free tech and seeing if they also get Alphabet, Writing, Philiosophy, and COL.

Oh, and don't worry too much (IMO) about names for non era techs. they will generally be hidden, and IMO should also include non-era in their name so that simply scanning the Civilopedia doesn't result in finding this tech that doesn't show up any where else.

RRnut
 
Yeah, sorry RRNut, I'm putting my lot in with (newer) option 1, too.
Originally posted by PCHighway
While I’m at it do you guys have a better sounding name for a non-era tech, which gives Elves the ability to plant forests?
I have “forest lore” :rolleyes:
How about a variation on "Gardening"? :rolleyes: Sucks, I know, but that's sort of the feel with the elves being caretakers, Ents being tenders, Yavanna being the gardener... Arboreal Stewardship? Ardan Gardening? Ecological Restoration? Maybe these crappy ideas will stimulate something better in someone else's mind?!
 
Hello,

While we are on the subject of worker abilities, how about renaming clearwetlands to Cleanse Forest? would turn the Dark forest into Forest?

Make it come (along with the ability to plant forests) come at nature lore near the beginning of the 3rd era. make it dependent on the non-era tech "being good" that is given to all good civilizations. That way all good civs can plant forests and cleanse forests.

I also checked my suggesstion about getting all the prerequisites of a tech if you get it for free. so we are stuck with assigning two non-era techs to each civ, assuming that each gets two free techs at the beginning.

Have a tenative list for mordor. Everybody likes angmar the oppisite of Isengard? gets orcs but men with wonder?

RRnut
 
Originally posted by RRnut
Everybody likes angmar the oppisite of Isengard? gets orcs but men with wonder?
Sounds like good symmetry to me!
 
RRnut-
PCH, I think that I asked this before, but we are going to have more advanced unit lines than those posted above, right? just wanted to make sure.
Indeed you asked this no less than three other times;). I suppose I’ve been a little shady in my answer, by not directly answering you.
In any case, yes they will more than likely be much deeper. Personally I hope for more complex UU modifications. For instance, if the Sylvian Elves get a UU as an archer, their entire archer line could be unique. Problem is we don’t have the graphics, so we must move sparingly. Also, for the _beta_ we will have the basic lines. During the beta testing, however, we can add the units where they are fit and needed, comprende?
RRnut-
Oh, and while you mentioned non-era techs, I had a general modding question. If one civ is given a non-era tech, does it get all its prerequisites? F.E. Gondor. It has the tech Being Gondorian assigned with its other two free techs in the base civ tab. This serves as a prerequisite for a tech such as Stewards in the 3rd era which gives a government and perhaps a civ specific wonder.
The prerequisite of Being Gondorian is Being Good Mannish, which allows some other techs specific to good men, perhaps giving some building or military techs.
The prequisite of Being Good Mannish is Being Good, which allows a later forest planting tech, or something like that.
So what I am asking is, does assigning a civ Being Gondorian give access to all the other techs before it? I suppose an easy test would be to put republic as a free tech and seeing if they also get Alphabet, Writing, Philiosophy, and COL.
Not sure I follow. You can make civ or culture specific technology by making a tech require both “Gondorians” and “Metalworking”, to give some type of UU or special feature. This is what I was refering to as “non-era tech”. These technologies have no era, after all. :)
Let me put this on the regular civ scale. If you want to give the English “yeomanry”, you would give the English a free, ‘do nothing’ technology. Such as “Angland”. Angland is given to the English at the start of the game. Now, you make another tech, this time “Yeomanry,” which allows the “armored longbowmen” unit. To make this unit appear in the real game, lets say after Feudalism, then you make both Angland and Feudalism a perquisite, while keeping the tech in era ‘none’. So you, the English, would be the only ones able to see Yeomanry, and only after you researched Feudalism. How I understood it, anyway.
Note, both “Gondorians” and “Metalworking” are not real technologies in LOTM.
RRnut-
Oh, and don't worry too much (IMO) about names for non era techs. they will generally be hidden, and IMO should also include non-era in their name so that simply scanning the Civilopedia doesn't result in finding this tech that doesn't show up any where else.
Nah! Fitting names are necessary :), perhaps not for the beta, but definitely for the alpha.

Also, from my understanding we always agreed mannish units for Isengard until the ‘treason part’ in the third age. Or fourth era, in our mod.

Isengard
Dundlending\Dundlendings

Gondor
Gondorian\Gondorians

Arnor
Dúnedain\Dúnedain

Númenor
Númenórean\Númenóreans

Rohan
Rohirrim\Rohir

Northmen
Northmen\Northmen
???
Noldor
Noldo\Noldorin
???
Sindar
Sinda\Sindarin
???
Moriquendi
Moriquenderin\Moriquender
???
The Dwarves
Dwarves\Dwarf

Mordor
Mornhoth\Mornhoth
???
Angmar
Angmarrim\Angmarrim
???
Harad
Southron\Southrons

Easterlings
Easterling\Easterlings

The Shire
Hobbit\Hobbits

(Ladros )

Mannish units revised:
Code has been making me exceedingly angry as of late, so I'm just going to upload the freaking text from now on, in RTF format. This one will just be generic plain text, and is simply here for reference.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/codeanger.txt
 
We'll need the Last Conformist to double-check those Elvish adjectives and what not, especially "Moriquender." :eek: I know nothing of such things, but the alarm bells are ringing with that one! :D
 
Well, it's a long time since I've been in this thread and there seems to be a lot of very long posts about spelling. :hmm:

Looking at those unit lines...did Elves have cavalry? I can't recall an Elf on horseback but maybe that's just me.
 
Glorfindel, for starters. ;)

Welcome back, mormegil. Sorry about all the spelling posts. :D
 
Hello,

Ok, thanks for answering re: units. was basically wondering if we were going in a direction like ED in the WH mod or a more typical UU direction. (actually, WH had essentially the same unit stats but different graphics over civ lines. I'd like both different) I'll see.

I tested my question RE: non-era techs, and didn't work. my basic question was: if you give a civ a non-era tech free, will it get any prerequisites to that free, allowing us to circumvent any restrictions on number of free techs. never mind.

Fine re Isengard. I'll try to work out a solution, except that my naming abilities are already worn out with easterlings and Haradrim.

SUppose that adding non-era techs will depend on a tech tree. are you working on that?

wat's the meaning of (Ladros)?

The elvish units look good and similar to what I was suggessting. just wondered what the 1st mannish defense value is? I thought that it was 2? is it now 3?

Re: noldor units, looks fine and about what I would have done.

Re: elven cavalry. Of course Glorfindel, the party of elven cavalry that was at the battle at the end of Angmar, and some places in the Silimarillion. IMHO there mainly used by the Noldor that dwelt towards the Northeast and guarded the passes of the mountains. Maehedros and fellows?

RRnut
 
PCH, I may be thick-skulled, but explain to me (again?) why the first offensive mannish unit is 3/2/1 costing 30 (at least according to your post March 22) and the first mannish cavalry has 3/2/2 and also costing 30!
You said you were going to dumb down the cavalry, but I can't see that it's been done for the first two eras. :mad:
The first cavalry should be 2/1/2 (costing 25 or 30) or 3/1/2 (costing 30-40), and the second should have have an attack value of 4 or 5. I want a reason to build infantry, these cavalry units are just too good...

Isengard
Dundlending\Dundlendings
Loose the middle d.
Northmen\Northmen
This should be Northman/Northmen, AFAIK.

I don't like "Mornhoth", "Mordorian" may be ugly, but you don't need to be a Swede living in Germany to understand it. ;)
 
Good call (it seems to me) on the Rohirric, the extra d, and the Northmen! :)
 
Mithadan-
Re: name for Silvan Elf archer unit

I think "Elven Pengdir" sounds okay (a little odd, but sometimes the Elven tounges do sound a little odd...). I guess mrtn will hate it?

Does anybody know of an adjectival form of Lorien/Lothlorien/Lindórinand? That might work...

Until we do hit on something mutually acceptable, I suggest "Silvan Archer" as a placeholder name. I buy PCH's misgivings, but I don't think they're crippling. Sounds good to me.

I’ll buy that. Just as long as the future holds a better name.
I’ve got good hopes that a 'gamma' version will be completed by March 16th. This will pretty much be an 'art-less' (and in some cases nameless) version. For instance, the 3rd Mordor defense unit will be called "evil def 4" . This allows me to move ahead while we linger on the finer points of the mod. It will be much easier to add to it, and if something happened where I had to go inactive for a month, the engine would be there so someone could take over easily. The gamma wouldn’t be released.


I have no idea if you guys are taking comments from the peanut gallery here. My apologies if you aren't. However, if you are, I have in my possession (actually in my lap as I'm typing this, having just done a little research) a Tolkien dictionary, complete with grammatical rules (all the words are found in Tolkien's writing, and all the rules are either also from Tolkien's writings or extrapolated from them - nothing's made up). If you like, I can provide some names that, while probably not found anywhere in the actual books, fit the vocabulary and structure.

For example, for an Elven Archer from Lorien:

The word for "bow" as in the weapon is Cu or Luva. There is no word for bowman or archer.

The word for "elf" is (in Sindarin): Edhel, Eledh, (in Quenya): Elda, Quenyi.

Lorien/Lothlorien everyone is fairly familiar with, I'm sure.

The word for "forest" is (in Sindarin): Erin, Taur, (in Quenya): Taure (with an accent mark over the e, which I'm not gonna look up the extended ASCII code for).

Lorienluva (lit. golden-bow) or Lothlorienluva (lit. golden-flower-bow) or Culorien (bow of Lorien, although somewhat shaky grammatically).
Edheluva, Elduva, Quendiluva (elf-bow) or Cuedhil, Cueldar (bow of the Elves, again I havn't done enough research on that grammatical construction to be sure it's valid - just some quick scanning).
Cuerin, Taureluva look the best there (bow of the forest, forest-bow respectively).


Anyway, I just stumbled on this thread and thought I'd stick my neck out for a second and toss in some ideas :) I don't know if you all are trying to only use terms from the books or not, or if you're looking for comments from the peanut gallery.
 
Zurai, as far as I'm concerned any help on names is fine. I can't do anything re: that. Pls continue to post, as we can use any comments from the peanut gallery. that's how I started back about thread 7 or so...

Re: mannish lines. mrtn, that is why I asked if the base defense value had been raised to 3. afterall, that's no modifications there so I assumed that everything else had been modified.

Hmmm. sorry to be so curious, but what does the Ladros in your last post mean PCH?

RRnut
 
Keep tossing, Zurai! We need all the help we can get! You and your book are most welcome here. If you keep posting you'll end up out of the peanut gallery and in the mod somehow.

Some diacritics for you. Which of these accents is the right one?

ALT-130 é
ALT-136 ê
ALT-137 ë

I'm liking the names you're coming up with. Now to choose. (And to pass the Swedish test: we have one Swede, living in Germany, who's really good at ME languages, :worship: and another Swede, not living in Germany, who doesn't want much in the way of ME languages! :rolleyes: Oh de dexel!)
 
Originally posted by Mithadan
Some diacritics for you. Which of these accents is the right one?

ALT-130 é
ALT-136 ê
ALT-137 ë

The correct one would be ë (ALT-137).
 
elven plant-forest tech, "Sleep of Yavanna(sp)" perhaps?

mormegmil, in the silmarilion the princes of the noldor had calvalry patroling the plains before the gates of angband...

Oh I have been readin the simarilion again...
 
the mormegil-
Looking at those unit lines...did Elves have cavalry? I can't recall an Elf on horseback but maybe that's just me.
Certainly, look at Legolas for instance. The only problem is the Elves rode without saddles and the only units (besides the naked Greek dude) have saddles. I believe The Last Conformist brought it to our attention earslier. But for now there is nothing we can do about it.
RRnut-
Suppose that adding non-era techs will depend on a tech tree. are you working on that?
The tech tree? I’ve added all the technologies Mrtn and myself created so long ago, but they lack any order.
RRnut-
wat's the meaning of (Ladros)?
It means you ask too many questions ;). While researching I found the name, and saw that it could be used as a desperately needed Northmen city, that’s all. :)
RRnut-
The elvish units look good and similar to what I was suggessting. just wondered what the 1st mannish defense value is? I thought that it was 2? is it now 3?
Of course it is still two. The Idea of having the men at two defense, was in fact so we could make the Elves -who were more skilled at the early date- able to have a higher defense value.
RRnut- Re: noldor units, looks fine and about what I would have done.
Good, looks like we are more or less settled with the Elves! If anyone wants any changes, they better suggest soon.
RRnut- Re: elven cavalry. Of course Glorfindel, the party of elven cavalry that was at the battle at the end of Angmar, and some places in the Silimarillion. IMHO there mainly used by the Noldor that dwelt towards the Northeast and guarded the passes of the mountains. Maehedros and fellows?
Indeed, I even have a specific reference of “horse archers” being used by the elves in the Silmarillion, which, in case you guys didn’t get it, is the default cavalry for the Sindar and Moriquendi in that list.

Wimp, Mithadan, I don’t remember Rohirric at all. It almost sounds like a language rather than a people. Can I get some more info on it?
Also, Rohir apparently means ‘knight’ or ‘lord’ according to TEA. If it isn’t going to be used as an adjective, then it could be a cool unit.

Lets try this again:

Isengard
Dunlending\Dunlendings

Gondor
Gondorian\Gondorians

Arnor
Dúnedain\Dúnedain

Númenor
Númenórean\Númenóreans

Rohan
Eorling\Eorlings

Northmen
Northman\Northmen

Noldor
Noldo\Noldorin

Sindar
Sinda\Sindarin

Moriquendi
Moriquender\Moriquenderin
???
The Dwarves
Dwarf\Dwarves

Mordor
Mordorian\Mordorians

Angmar
Angmarrim\Angmarrim

Harad
Southron\Southrons

Easterlings
Easterling\Easterlings

The Shire
Hobbit\Hobbits
aaglo-
Which one of them? :p
Are you here to tell us to get to work again, or are you here to recruit! :whipped:
RRnut-
Re: mannish lines. mrtn, that is why I asked if the base defense value had been raised to 3. afterall, that's no modifications there so I assumed that everything else had been modified.
Sheesh, you’re persistent aren’t you:). The only ones I revised are the ones that needed to be revised.
And don’t worry, even if Ladros sounds Greek, I’m not cursing you secretly ;)

Mithadan, if you would spend a couple bucks and buy WordPefect, or Microsoft word, you wouldn’t need to type in 4 keys to get the letters. :)

Sounds good Celeborn.
And welcome Zurai.

I lowered the cavalry as suggested Mrtn, as we couldn’t stand to have a unit that comes twice as late as a swordsman, be as powerful as the Celts UU! :p
 
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