ALC Game #23: America/Lincoln

VoiceOfUnreason · Jul 1, 2008

VoiceOfUnreason said:
You aren't wrong, as of the last time I looked into this. It's possible that one of the patches has changed that behavior, but I suspect that someone would have noticed.

Reviewing the code after 3.17, the logic appears to be the same - you can't pop a tech unless you can research it, you can't research a tech until the "I can has city?" bit has been set, and that bit is set after your culture infuses the tiles surrounding your city plot, which is where the goody code gets triggered.

I can't explain how anyone could pop Hunting by founding the first city - as usual, it would be nice to have a pre-save.

Alternatively, somebody motivated could retry the Techs only good mod, and run the experiment I described previously, to see if the results have changed.

ANewGuy · Jul 1, 2008

I'm not good at this game, nor do I have BTS, but I think that moving the Warrior 1S to scout a future city site is a good idea, and settle in place with plans to move the capital to a city that has more potential for something other than a GP farm. This city will definately be your GP farm unless some other gamebreaking city site is found. Really can't beat 3 seafood and 3-4 floodplains for that.

Rameau's Nephew · Jul 1, 2008

VoiceOfUnreason said:
I can't explain how anyone could pop Hunting by founding the first city - as usual, it would be nice to have a pre-save.

Mea culpa. I missed a nuance in the calculation-- I didn't know that a border pop from an existing city was any different from the initial settling of one's capital. My situation was the former.

lyagushka · Jul 1, 2008

I'm a Prince / occasional Monarch player - and you'll see why when I ask my next question, but....

What about settling on the spot the warrior is on? It would cost 2 turns to get there, but I've seen high-level games with 2-3 moves to get an inland start and blockoff space for future cities, so that doesn't seem like a show-stopper. And it would gain a huge, early production advantage over settling in place. It loses a seafood but gains the pigs so food is still okay. It's one less water tile but also one wasted tile with the peak, which will probably turn out to be an active volcano and erupt every 30 times destroying multiple tile improvements! But it's enough food to work the non-hill, non-water tiles as either cottages or workshops. It does lose fresh water, though. I guess I just often find that early production power can solve a lot of problems, and only 2 hills to mine seems light in the capital. Maybe whipping with high-food sites can do the same thing.

So I'd probably move the warrior 1S. And that's probably why I play on Prince.

CivCorpse · Jul 1, 2008

lyagushka said:
I'm a Prince / occasional Monarch player - and you'll see why when I ask my next question, but....

What about settling on the spot the warrior is on? It would cost 2 turns to get there, but I've seen high-level games with 2-3 moves to get an inland start and blockoff space for future cities, so that doesn't seem like a show-stopper. And it would gain a huge, early production advantage over settling in place. It loses a seafood but gains the pigs so food is still okay. It's one less water tile but also one wasted tile with the peak, which will probably turn out to be an active volcano and erupt every 30 times destroying multiple tile improvements! But it's enough food to work the non-hill, non-water tiles as either cottages or workshops. It does lose fresh water, though. I guess I just often find that early production power can solve a lot of problems, and only 2 hills to mine seems light in the capital. Maybe whipping with high-food sites can do the same thing.

So I'd probably move the warrior 1S. And that's probably why I play on Prince.

You actually answered your own question about why moving to the warriors location is a bad idea.

lyagushka · Jul 1, 2008

Well, I guess that's some progress. Thanks!

BlueSoxSWJ · Jul 2, 2008

I vote for a regen. From the pregame thread:

CivCorpse said:
You're obviously a newbie. EVERYBODY knows that if you can't move the warrior 1NE you regen because the map is unwinnable.

To be serious, I never move my capital. While we've seen it work quite well in an ALC before (Mongolia, maybe?), I tend to find that once most of the hidden resources are exposed, the starting spot is the best.

On the other hand, my last three starts have ended up with iron, gold, and horses respectively 2 spots diagonally from my capital, so who knows.

Calder · Jul 2, 2008

I wouldn't commit to settling until the warrior reveals whats across the river by moving onto the hill 1NW. Settling in place and committing to Moai for the needed extra hammers looks slightly stronger than settling 1W, unless the warrior reveals anything special across the river. Settling anywhere else losing the fresh water bonus could be a little problematic later on. Looks like you'll get a strong 2nd city following the river SW with the pigs/plains hills.

civ4legs · Jul 2, 2008

I say settle in place, in part because that's what I do 95+% of the time. The fogged tile to the west is clearly a floodplain, but is the one to the north sure to be forested? It's hard to tell, and I'm not very practiced as a fogged-tile-reader, but if it's a non-forested plains, which I think it might be, I would say there's a very high chance that it's a strategic resource...

slobberinbear · Jul 2, 2008

RE: Moai Statues

They're nice, but they're quite expensive in the early game without stone. I'm not sure the decision on where to settle should be based on this national wonder.

Short-term, settling in place lets Sisiutil crank out workboats, workers, and settlers fast and has plenty of food for whipping military or infrastructure. 1 W is better in the medium-term with more hammers and commerce (assuming more floodplains are there) for Bureaucracy.

Since this is Immortal, and a good start is never bad, I vote for settling in place.

CivCorpse · Jul 2, 2008

On moving the warrior. I would suggest moving him towards the south. We can safely assume that the tiles to the west of the river are floodplains because they run in pairs on either side of a river. Getting a good look at what is to the south could help decide if the southern clams will be needed for a different city.

Sisiutil · Jul 2, 2008

CivCorpse said:
If Washington is going to be a GP farm then Mocha statues will be a waste since you will be running a lot of specialists.

A very cogent point. You're right, in a GP farm I'd be assigning a citizen as a specialist rather than having him work an ocean tile. So I think we'll be saving the Moai Statues for another city. As others have noted, on this type of map there should be no shortage of good sites.

Sorry I didn't get the round posted last night; since I was home all day for Canada Day, my wife decided to take advantage of the fact and put me to work. So rather than slaughtering civilizations, I was mounting a coordinated assault on dust bunnies. I swear the only reason women marry us is so they have someone to shove the furniture around.

But I should be able to post tonight!

IthacaMike · Jul 2, 2008

Sisiutil said:
Sorry I didn't get the round posted last night; since I was home all day for Canada Day, my wife decided to take advantage of the fact and put me to work. So rather than slaughtering civilizations, I was mounting a coordinated assault on dust bunnies. I swear the only reason women marry us is so they have someone to shove the furniture around.

That and we kill spiders too!

IthacaMike

CivCorpse · Jul 2, 2008

Sisiutil said:
A very cogent point. You're right, in a GP farm I'd be assigning a citizen as a specialist rather than having him work an ocean tile. So I think we'll be saving the Moai Statues for another city. As others have noted, on this type of map there should be no shortage of good sites.

Sorry I didn't get the round posted last night; since I was home all day for Canada Day, my wife decided to take advantage of the fact and put me to work. So rather than slaughtering civilizations, I was mounting a coordinated assault on dust bunnies. I swear the only reason women marry us is so they have someone to shove the furniture around.

But I should be able to post tonight!

I will give you Civil Service, 100gold and my world map if you stop trading with her

Froggie818 · Jul 2, 2008

IthacaMike said:
That and we kill spiders too!

Speak for yourself, macho man!

DMOC · Jul 2, 2008

But we did not get to 10 pages yet!

Lord Chambers · Jul 2, 2008

If the map had started us 1w people would be arguing to move to the plains hill.

johnny_rico · Jul 2, 2008

Lord Chambers said:
If the map had started us 1w people would be arguing to move to the plains hill.

I'll argue for you stay on the plains hill. It's just a great spot. Past that, I'm looking forward to watching this game unfold. Immortal is a much different game than emperor.

Bandobras Took · Jul 2, 2008

Lord Chambers said:
If the map had started us 1w people would be arguing to move to the plains hill.

Believe it or not, I was actually looking forward to your first comment.

Winston Hughes · Jul 2, 2008

Lord Chambers said:
If the map had started us 1w people would be arguing to move to the plains hill.

And that would be what? Foolish? Sensible?

Since you're all about schooling the unwashed masses in optimal play, would you care to clarify your opinion for those of us in the cheap seats? :mischief:

ALC Game #23: America/Lincoln

Deity

OCC Specialist

Bureaucrat

Chieftain

Supreme Overlord of All

Chieftain

Chieftain

Warlord

Warlord

Ursine Skald

Supreme Overlord of All

All Leader Challenger

Chieftain

Supreme Overlord of All

Chieftain

Mathematician

Emperor

one more turn addict

Emperor

Wrathful Warlock

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