Special WWII Unit Concepts, Gestapo, NKVD, Resistance, SAS, Slave & Forced Labor

Hey all,

Have some ideas for some unique units, wanted to run them by everyone to see what you think, and to see if my game theory stands up to scrutiny.

These units are to be part of my WWII Europe scenario:

Resistance:
Meant to be a unit that can be used to quietly subvert the enemy. It is an invisible non flaged (like the privateer) land unit that has very low attack and defence, but high movement. Its purpose is to sabotage through the pillage comand enemy improvements. All civs can build it. The idea for the mod is that when a civ is defeated but not conquered it can build these cheap (will be cheap) units to contine the attack by other means. Or a non defeated civ can land them into enemy territory, in this case simulating that side organizing and supporting risistance in occupied territory. Defender will not know who to blame, the defeated (I am thinking of a Vichy France scenario here) or undefeated player since the unit is not flagged.

SAS:
A unit that will be unique to the British. It will be an invisible so it can infiltrate and have the paradrop ability to get there fast, with a healthy movement. The atrack and defence will be negligable, only enough to hold their own against a Gestapo unit (who can call a real military unit in to kill the SAS). Its main weapon will be a withering bombard that can destroy any impovement or even miltary unit in one shot, simulating sabotage. Can also destroy ships off the coast. Should be a powerful unit if bombarding invisible units stay undeteced (see thread on that topic) since the enemy won't know where the bombard came from and will have to manuelly search surrounding squares. Very expensive.

Gestapo:
Special unit used to counter resistance fighters and SAS operations. Basically a unit with no attack or defence (like a settler it just dies when attacked) but can see invisible units and has a healthy movement rate. Very expensive.

NKVD:
The predessessor of the KGB, performs the same function of the Gestapo unit only for the Soviet side. Same stats and very expensive. Would like to add some other sutable ability, any ideas?

Slave Labor:
In my scenario, certain cities have a unique resorce called "Jewish Population Center" represented by a small Star of David. The scenario has three small wonders for the German side, concentration camps, that can be built in these cities (it requires the resource). It looks like C3C will allow units to be linked to wonders for building. The Slave Labor unit is a very cheap worker that can be built at these sites (normal workers are very expensive units in the scenario). The idea for the game is that the cities that have these wonders will find their populations quicky depleted, and since the unit will not have the join city option, when you can't afford their upkeep they have to he disbanded, the referance bieng obvious.

Forced Labor:
The same idea as the Slave Labor, only with a Soviet twist. The soviets will start with their three small wonders, Labor Camps, on the Eastern periphery of the map. These work the same way, only do have the join city option. Represents the ability of the soviets to use dissident labor.

What do you all think?

as for the resistance unit, i think the main problem might be that the ai builds lots of these, thus getting an overflow of these...

for the rest it sounds great, tough some peope might be offensed by the slave labor improvement and the jews being a resource...

but i think it's the only way to implement such a ting in civ

great work!

Yeah, I know some people get offended by such referances, but I don't give them much mind because if they don't realize I am just using the jargon of the game to achieve an end, well, I have no interest in talking to them. What would a would war two scenario be if it didn't include the holocaust? More insulting that me havint a Jewish "resource" in my opinion.

The scenario will be a little too complex for the AI to handle well, I had planed on it bieng a dedicated multiplayer map with all human players, though I do have the map prepeared for single player. Multiplayer is my key goal however.

Originally posted by Patroklos
What would a would war two scenario be if it didn't include the holocaust?

Click to expand...

It's be a scenario with wide appeal. I think a good thing about Civ is that it allows you to take on the trappings of a historical group without having to claim its baggage, too. There's a reason the game doesn't include Holocaust elements to the German civ.

I'm trying to be constructive. The Nazis didn't exclusively exterminate Jews, so I'd suggest making their "resource" vague, in the same way you imagine doing for the Soviet "forced labor" resource.

Appreciate the suggestion, but civ is not just a game, but a form of simulation, especially for a die hard history major like myself If someone likes playing incomplete scenarios, there are lots of them out there.

Yeah more people than the Jews were persecuted, Jews are still the population that should be represented by such an abstraction.

Meant to be a unit that can be used to quietly subvert the enemy. It is an invisible non flaged (like the privateer) land unit that has very low attack and defence, but high movement.

Click to expand...

I think this unit might be too powerful, unless it is made so that it can't stand on the same tile as any other units. Because otherwise, you can abuse ROP heavily by just moving it along with another unit.
I think that is why they make privateers in the game incapable of bombardment, otherwise it's too good.

It would be a powerful unit, but remember it has only slight attack and defence and would be rolled over by any real military unit. Also, it has no bombard, so it has to pillage the square it is on, giving itself away. It the Germans and Soviets are using their Gestapo and NKVD units corectly, then should be able to stop them. If you are a freedom loving democracy, well, thats the price of freedom.

As far as ROP, shouldn't matter, the alliances are preset.

It would be a powerful unit, but remember it has only slight attack and defence and would be rolled over by any real military unit. Also, it has no bombard, so it has to pillage the square it is on, giving itself away. It the Germans and Soviets are using their Gestapo and NKVD units corectly, then should be able to stop them. If you are a freedom loving democracy, well, thats the price of freedom

Click to expand...

yes, but if you have another unit accompanying it, the AI can't attack that unit without your other units coming to its defense. The computer is set so that the healthiest defender of that tile will fight.

.......... which in turn will cause a war. With the attacker being blamed for it(though in truth he was just protecting his already pillaged land).

Hello all,

If you are going to send a normal military unit in with it, it defeats the point. It is supposed to infiltrate unnoticed to "sabotage" a key improvement, maybe a road over a resource or something. Basically, there is no reason to use it in conjunction with a conventional unit, might as well send another combat unit in. And remember, once it pillages it becomes visible to you, since it is the same as attacking. Don't have to worry about the same resistance unit going from tile to tile destroying everything in sight as long as you have something to kill it once you can see it. And if you are using your NKVD/Gestapo units correctly, well, then you shouldn't have to worry about them at all.

Tee idea behind the Resistanc/SAS and Gestapo/NKVD units is based on the special units of CTP, with CivIII limitations and those required by the scenario.

As far as how the AI will use it, the senario is built for all human players. The concepts I will introduce into this scenario are far to complex for the AI to handle, so in that respect I agree with all of you. So the diplomatic questions you raise are largly mute. Because there can only be 8 players in a mulitplayer scenario, dipolmacy will be odd anyways since all the minor powers will be combined into a "Minor Power" civ, played by the game referee/moderator who will treat all the minor powers under him as separate civs. He will probobly have to be at defacto war will all the other players because of this, but his actions won't refect this.