Winning on Diety

The important thing is to not go in with a strategy and not be able to adapt when things go wrong. I haven't played in several weeks(work + Guild Wars 2!!! ) but as an example, my last Deity game with Darius was going to be Liberty until Napoleon forward settled on my borders on turn 3. I decided to flip a switch and go Honor. He went Honor as well, attacked, and I beat him back and ended up getting a 1400g peace deal and then crushed him 10 turns later because he built The Great Wall.

@Phil You can get by just fine with two cities on most maps for a good chunk of the game and I think I would have done that here. You said you didn't have a lot of luxuries either, so I don't think you'd really want to be expanding very much; going Tradition should have provided plenty of happiness to handle things. Eventually you could start pumping some units out and go jack Hiawatha's land. Or again, you could have archer rushed him as soon as you saw him and then gone to Longbows. Hiawatha is one of the civs(Iroquois, Rome, Russia, Japan, Babylon, France) that triggers a red flag in my head when they're near me. Okay, every AI triggers a red flag with me, but he triggers a redder one.

Basically in like half my games I plan for a strategy and then it gets thrown out the window; most of the time I end up with 3 cities instead of 4 and take my fourth from someone because the AI has expanded so fast or the land just sucks. I've learned to very rarely throw out a start now unless it's just so disgustingly bad that I probably won't have fun; I had one the other day on Tundra and Desert with no river surrounded by mountains with a one hex choke point into...more desert and city-states occupying the only good land. I scouted until like turn 40 and seriously did not find one new luxury I could settle and no neighbor I could rush with Honor.

Light Cleric said:

The important thing is to not go in with a strategy and not be able to adapt when things go wrong. I haven't played in several weeks(work + Guild Wars 2!!! ) but as an example, my last Deity game with Darius was going to be Liberty until Napoleon forward settled on my borders on turn 3. I decided to flip a switch and go Honor. He went Honor as well, attacked, and I beat him back and ended up getting a 1400g peace deal and then crushed him 10 turns later because he built The Great Wall.

@Phil You can get by just fine with two cities on most maps for a good chunk of the game and I think I would have done that here. You said you didn't have a lot of luxuries either, so I don't think you'd really want to be expanding very much; going Tradition should have provided plenty of happiness to handle things.

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Thanks to a culture ruin, I had to choose a policy branch before I'd explored sufficiently to know I only had access to extra truffles (and not many of those). The El Dorado expand and apparent size of the area I had to myself made Liberty look more advisable. Moreover, food production is to me the key bonus from Tradition, and I had no problem with that (especially in York - 3 wheat in flood plains).

Eventually you could start pumping some units out and go jack Hiawatha's land.

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He was tech leader before he started ICSing the land on my continent I was unable to colonise due to happiness penalties, not an ideal first target. I also tend not to be aggressive in the early game.

Or again, you could have archer rushed him as soon as you saw him and then gone to Longbows. Hiawatha is one of the civs(Iroquois, Rome, Russia, Japan, Babylon, France) that triggers a red flag in my head when they're near me. Okay, every AI triggers a red flag with me, but he triggers a redder one.

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Yes, I definitely had that in mind. He's more reliable than Bismarck or Suleiman, but I've been wary - I have an army on standby.

But what strikes me most of all is that by my standards on Immortal, I'm doing well (unlike my Songhai attempt, where I just played badly), and without the benefit of Wonders I can reliably grab on that level (Petra, Leaning Tower), and with few civs willing to give DoFs (only one RA so far, with Catherine). It's turn 150 or thereabouts (before 1200 AD) and I'm in the Industrial Era with 39% in tech demographics - yet I'm 10 techs behind the average and 20 behind Hiawatha.

Basically in like half my games I plan for a strategy and then it gets thrown out the window; most of the time I end up with 3 cities instead of 4 and take my fourth from someone because the AI has expanded so fast or the land just sucks.

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Yes, I really should stop going for Liberty altogether (I do usually go Tradition, but sometimes it seems I can get away with Liberty). Quite aside from the oft-debated pros and cons of the two trees post-G&K, Tradition is much better at adapting to circumstances. Liberty is only of any value if you're able to expand rapidly and often in the early game, and is a waste if you end up stuck on 3 or 4 cities wishing you had Tradition. Tradition works best on small numbers of cities mostly because otherwise the food bonuses in every city can be hard to manage, but it's much easier to play a wide strategy with Tradition than a tall strategy with Liberty (there are plenty of ways to limit growth you don't want).

I've learned to very rarely throw out a start now unless it's just so disgustingly bad that I probably won't have fun; I had one the other day on Tundra and Desert with no river surrounded by mountains with a one hex choke point into...more desert and city-states occupying the only good land. I scouted until like turn 40 and seriously did not find one new luxury I could settle and no neighbor I could rush with Honor.

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This looked a bad start to begin with - no immediately visible luxuries (a truffle was just out of sight), and everything else was forested hills except for the resource-less sea tiles. But London became a pretty decent production city and the early boost from clearing forests certainly helped.

Tried out a game on Deity for the first time with Greece.

Was alright, found Washington which was like 10 tiles away from my capital. Had only one other CS near me, stole a CS worker since Washington was going to DOW anyways, and after monument + scout, just went berserk with 5 archers + 1 warrior.

Started with Liberty because I have no choice - no way I will be producing or buying a settler/worker since everything went for the CB rush. Washington DOW at T35 which was reasonable, and with 3 archers currently in Athens, fended him off and took 30 turns to finally regain my steps and take his capital. Lost a CB as my only cost to gain Washington and a WHOOPING 2000g peace deal.

Ironically I immediately allied the CS I stole the worker from, a mercantile CS, and immediately went from -9 to +2 happiness. Still had 1000g to spare, which I spent on Shrines and a Settler (probably not the best deal, but there was 3 religion up for grabs, and neither Washington or the Ottomans had a pantheon).


Stopped around there since I just want to get a feel for Deity. Don't really like it since the Wonder element of the game is effectively gone. Also Washington DOW on me again around 30 turns after, where he had a crazy amount of units with just one city, surprised killed my CB but I won again with 700g as the prize (how the heck did a satellite New York gain 700g with at least 10+ units? The guy bullied Vatican City at least thrice, but still. :/)

did you settle Sparta just for the crabs? that copper spot on the opposite coast looks a little better to me with more workable resources.

edit: i see the horses now. im guessing that was a bigger decider for you. never mind.

That and I settled it so I can use the GG on Washington, bait his units to attack my city, etc. Also I finished Construction as my archers went to Sparta so it was a good upgrade spot as well, kept the war on pace.

Now good luck to keep the pace with other more stronger AIs. But yeah this map isn't easy and you did a good job at taking his capite despite a pre 40 turn Wash-o-attack. Problem is you are already a lot behind

that's my favourite way to get an early capital on deity.. or even on lower levels, but less necessary. go honour to get the free great general, build your second city right up as close as possible to the closest ai's capital city, buy any tiles you need/can to reach right in, get your great general set up on the border with no river crossing and flatland on the other side. declare war, jump your great general into their territory and build a citadel. ideally you'll end up with a citadel pushed right up against their capital, killing/weakening any unit stationed inside the city and giving you nice +20hp/turn healing friendly territory to attack from and a defensive citadel to sit in. this strategy often results in taking a capital very easily with no losses. also, since you're using your second city to push hard forward as opposed to a pure military rush, you aren't limiting your expansion by going pure military, which makes this superior imo to a pure composite rush.