Unique Ability Elimination Thread

Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 15
Diplomatic Marriage 16
Sacrificial Captives 23
Ingenuity 13
Patriarchate of Constantinople 8 (+1)
Phoenician Heritage 29
Druidic Lore 10
Art of War 20
Viking Fury 14 (-2)
Monument Builders 23
Sun Never Sets 22
Spirit of Adwa 6
Ancien Regime 24
Hellenic League 20
Scourge of God 8
Great Andean Road 24
The Great Warpath 12
Bushido 9
Scholars of the Jade Hall 21
The Long Count 17
Mongol Terror 10
Dutch East India Company 24
Barbary Corsairs 14
Achaemenid Legacy 25
Wayfinding 14
The Glory of Rome 28
Siberian Riches 20
Father Governs Children 24
Seven Cities of Gold 11
Nobel Prize 20
River Warlord 19

Viking Fury...people, I think, are overestimating the healing needed by their units. If you take 80 damage, you might be able to heal up really quickly, but it'll take 3 improvements that won't be coming back to almost fully heal a unit that is either going to have to get away anyway or get blasted again, and if you start embarked, you'll need to embark again to get more movement, which, if near a city, could mean the outright death of one of your units. I'm just not feeling it.

Patriarchate of Constantinople isn't the very best, but it's just too low on the list. I don't care what you have to say about it conflicting with the UU's. The UU's are bad for it (and come at a very strange time for a civ that grew out of Rome) due to the fact the UA is so valuable.

What is this UA? Is it +1 food from camps? Is it 2 beakers per trade route? Is it faster religion spread? Is it more money? Is it more happiness? It is what you need. Nearly any single religion bonus in the correct context is better than an unchanging UA. This is ANY religion benefit of your choice.

Use the embarking. With 7 movement points in the water its not hard to deal with multiple strategies. A blitz berserker could attack up to 6 times + heal 6 times and still go back into the water. And ships cover your hurt units so they don't get killed. Viking Fury continues to get improved upon.

Viking Fury is an ability you cant judge properly on paper without using it. It is MUCH better than it sounds on paper even as it stands. Add into the fact there are always random lakes on a map. Those random lakes become points of pure destruction - stationing a unit in one allows for flexible defense, Viking Fury style attack (6 movement along with additional attack, ignoring of Zone of Control, and soon to be pillaging bonuses), etc. Pillaging will only help more
===

PoC on the other hand is much worse in practice than it sounds on paper. It is determined partially on luck, partially on difficulty level (for example playing a deity - Ice Age map atm and was getting 11 faith per turn from 4 cities with a decent faith focus - didnt manage to get one of the 6 religions - on an easier level I probably would have been one of the first to get a religion, wouldn't have had to deal with the Spanish inquisition which had just taken down Kathmandu and was bordering her army next to me, and would have had stonehenge open)

PoC is too luck dependent and forces you to play a certain way neglecting the other aspects of the Byzantine culture oftentimes to get the max use of it (Ignoring Dromons + Cataphracts often). On multiplayer with logical players - its hard to spread religion outside of players who were unable to found a religion. Its just a weak, too luck dependent, unreliable on many levels, UA. I rank it among the bottom personally because of many of these things.

Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 15
Diplomatic Marriage 16
Sacrificial Captives 23
Ingenuity 13
Patriarchate of Constantinople 6 (-2)
Phoenician Heritage 29
Druidic Lore 10
Art of War 20
Viking Fury 15 (+1)
Monument Builders 23
Sun Never Sets 22
Spirit of Adwa 6
Ancien Regime 24
Hellenic League 20
Scourge of God 8
Great Andean Road 24
The Great Warpath 12
Bushido 9
Scholars of the Jade Hall 21
The Long Count 17
Mongol Terror 10
Dutch East India Company 24
Barbary Corsairs 14
Achaemenid Legacy 25
Wayfinding 14
The Glory of Rome 28
Siberian Riches 20
Father Governs Children 24
Seven Cities of Gold 11
Nobel Prize 20
River Warlord 19

Viking Fury - Already deadly in the amount of movement/attacks it gives. Pillaging giving units health will make this amazing. ... In the already proposed scenario...if you are losing 80 health a turn, potentially pillage healing most of it back, and losing it all again next turn...that would seem like an improperly balanced attack more so than a potential negative aspect of this UA to me.

PoC -

Rooftrellen said:

What is this UA? Is it +1 food from camps? Is it 2 beakers per trade route? Is it faster religion spread? Is it more money? Is it more happiness?

Click to expand...

It's none of those. It is an empty UA that is to difficult to activate on the highest difficulties.

A blitz berserker could attack up to 6 times + heal 6 times and still go back into the water.

Click to expand...

Correct me if I am wrong here, but a berserker with 7 moves and ignoring ZOC is the result of a bug, no? And, if the unit starts in the water and uses 1 move to get to land (to get the 6 land MP) how would it attack 6 times and still go back to water?

Plus, more importantly, if you are attacking 6 times and pillaging 6 times that means you are moving onto 6 different tiles, which means you are killing 6 units. That is some pretty sweet injured warrior spam you are facing.

If you are attack a city, then pillage, then attack the city, then you are on a tile with no improvement to pillage. I am sort of doubting you have ever pulled off a 6-attack & 6-pillage turn.


EDIT:
Also, because I am unsure of exactly how it works, doesn't Blitz only allow you to attack 2 times regardless of remaining move points?

Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 15
Diplomatic Marriage 16
Sacrificial Captives 23
Ingenuity 13
Patriarchate of Constantinople 6
Phoenician Heritage 29
Druidic Lore 8
Art of War 20
Viking Fury 15
Monument Builders 23
Sun Never Sets 22
Spirit of Adwa 7
Ancien Regime 24
Hellenic League 20
Scourge of God 8
Great Andean Road 24
The Great Warpath 12
Bushido 9
Scholars of the Jade Hall 21
The Long Count 17
Mongol Terror 10
Dutch East India Company 24
Barbary Corsairs 14
Achaemenid Legacy 25
Wayfinding 14
The Glory of Rome 28
Siberian Riches 20
Father Governs Children 24
Seven Cities of Gold 11
Nobel Prize 20
River Warlord 19


Down - 1 faith per city doesn't do much for me. Seems a bit underwhelming.

Up - Symbolic vote for Spirit of Adwa. I don't have to try to have less cities than the AI as I usually end up that way anyway. Expansive AI's will out expand me and tall AI's typically won't be on the offensive, so it fits my play style pretty well. First Emperor victory was an Ethiopian culture victory and the 20% boost came in to play. Granted the fact I was on an isolated continent had more to do with it than anything, but I'll give it bump.

Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 15
Diplomatic Marriage 16
Sacrificial Captives 23
Ingenuity 13
Patriarchate of Constantinople 6
Phoenician Heritage 29
Druidic Lore 8
Art of War 21
Viking Fury 15
Monument Builders 23
Sun Never Sets 22
Spirit of Adwa 7
Ancien Regime 24
Hellenic League 20
Scourge of God 8
Great Andean Road 24
The Great Warpath 12
Bushido 9
Scholars of the Jade Hall 21
The Long Count 17
Mongol Terror 8
Dutch East India Company 24
Barbary Corsairs 14
Achaemenid Legacy 25
Wayfinding 14
The Glory of Rome 28
Siberian Riches 20
Father Governs Children 24
Seven Cities of Gold 11
Nobel Prize 20
River Warlord 19

Art of War : Can be called...Art of clearly winning a domination game.

Mongol Terror : Should be called...Keshik Terror. Whatever the UA

Manifest Destiny 14
Trade Caravans 15
Diplomatic Marriage 16
Sacrificial Captives 23
Ingenuity 13
Patriarchate of Constantinople 6
Phoenician Heritage 29
Druidic Lore 8
Art of War 21
Viking Fury 15
Monument Builders 23
Sun Never Sets 22
Spirit of Adwa 7
Ancien Regime 24
Hellenic League 20
Scourge of God 8
Great Andean Road 25
The Great Warpath 12
Bushido 9
Scholars of the Jade Hall 21
The Long Count 17
Mongol Terror 8
Dutch East India Company 24
Barbary Corsairs 14
Achaemenid Legacy 25
Wayfinding 14
The Glory of Rome 28
Siberian Riches 20
Father Governs Children 24
Seven Cities of Gold 11
Nobel Prize 20
River Warlord 19

Wabango fix

Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 15
Diplomatic Marriage 16
Sacrificial Captives 23
Ingenuity 13
Patriarchate of Constantinople 6
Phoenician Heritage 29
Druidic Lore 8
Art of War 21
Viking Fury 15
Monument Builders 23
Sun Never Sets 22
Spirit of Adwa 7
Ancien Regime 24
Hellenic League 20
Scourge of God 8
Great Andean Road 24
The Great Warpath 12
Bushido 9
Scholars of the Jade Hall 21
The Long Count 17
Mongol Terror 8
Dutch East India Company 24
Barbary Corsairs 12
Achaemenid Legacy 25
Wayfinding 14
The Glory of Rome 29
Siberian Riches 20
Father Governs Children 24
Seven Cities of Gold 11
Nobel Prize 20
River Warlord 19

The Glory of Rome: same reason as my previous posts

Barbary Corsairs: naval maintenance isn't that high and prize ship promotion doesn't help much.

Maybe if we are lucky the mods will ban him. All he does is spam these threads.

Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 15
Diplomatic Marriage 16
Sacrificial Captives 23
Ingenuity 13
Patriarchate of Constantinople 6
Phoenician Heritage 29
Druidic Lore 8
Art of War 21
Viking Fury 15
Monument Builders 23
Sun Never Sets 22
Spirit of Adwa 7
Ancien Regime 24
Hellenic League 20
Scourge of God 8
Great Andean Road 25
The Great Warpath 12
Bushido 9
Scholars of the Jade Hall 21
The Long Count 17
Mongol Terror 8
Dutch East India Company 24
Barbary Corsairs 10
Achaemenid Legacy 25
Wayfinding 14
The Glory of Rome 29
Siberian Riches 20
Father Governs Children 24
Seven Cities of Gold 11
Nobel Prize 20
River Warlord 19

Incan UA for 1. seriously. Single handedly makes Incans a powerhouse in finance and warfare.
Ottomans UA even after the buff seems weak. You really don't need a tireme to get prized ships, nor do you necessarily need a caravel to do so. The maintenance shouldn't even be a problem unless you have a ridiculous fleet but if you did manage to have that many you should be conquering enough to have puppet to support it.

Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 15
Diplomatic Marriage 16
Sacrificial Captives 23
Ingenuity 13
Patriarchate of Constantinople 6
Phoenician Heritage 29
Druidic Lore 8
Art of War 21
Viking Fury 15
Monument Builders 23
Sun Never Sets 22
Spirit of Adwa 7
Ancien Regime 24
Hellenic League 20
Scourge of God 6
Great Andean Road 25
The Great Warpath 12
Bushido 9
Scholars of the Jade Hall 21
The Long Count 17
Mongol Terror 8
Dutch East India Company 24
Barbary Corsairs 10
Achaemenid Legacy 25
Wayfinding 14
The Glory of Rome 29
Siberian Riches 20
Father Governs Children 24
Seven Cities of Gold 12
Nobel Prize 20
River Warlord 19

Scourge of God: Never, ever, in one single game I have wished that I could raze cities faster. A complete waste of an ability.

Seven cities of gold: By no means the most powerful ability, but I think that it deserves more love, if only for how much fun it is. It really does give you an incentive to explore and colonize in far away lands, adding a lot of flavour and role - playing to the games. Also, even if it extremely situational, the extra happiness and gold per discovered wonder are not.

Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 13
Diplomatic Marriage 16
Sacrificial Captives 23
Ingenuity 13
Patriarchate of Constantinople 6
Phoenician Heritage 29
Druidic Lore 8
Art of War 21
Viking Fury 15
Monument Builders 23
Sun Never Sets 22
Spirit of Adwa 7
Ancien Regime 24
Hellenic League 20
Scourge of God 6
Great Andean Road 25
The Great Warpath 12
Bushido 10
Scholars of the Jade Hall 21
The Long Count 17
Mongol Terror 8
Dutch East India Company 24
Barbary Corsairs 10
Achaemenid Legacy 25
Wayfinding 14
The Glory of Rome 29
Siberian Riches 20
Father Governs Children 24
Seven Cities of Gold 12
Nobel Prize 20
River Warlord 19


bushido - it makes me feel safe inside
trade caravans - the ub is better than the ua (which isn't very interesting or good)

Ikael said:

Scourge of God: Never, ever, in one single game I have wished that I could raze cities faster. A complete waste of an ability.

Click to expand...

Oh man, I definitely have. Aztec culture-domination game, wiping out non-capital cities I don't really want to puppet... razing them one...at...a...time... in order to avoid the dreaded -10 . Still not gonna vote that ability up tho.

Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 13
Diplomatic Marriage 16
Sacrificial Captives 23
Ingenuity 13
Patriarchate of Constantinople 6
Phoenician Heritage 29
Druidic Lore 8
Art of War 21
Viking Fury 15
Monument Builders 23
Sun Never Sets 22
Spirit of Adwa 7
Ancien Regime 24
Hellenic League 20
Scourge of God 6
Great Andean Road 25
The Great Warpath 12
Bushido 10
Scholars of the Jade Hall 21
The Long Count 17
Mongol Terror 8
Dutch East India Company 24
Barbary Corsairs 8 (-2) I love the Ottoman UUs, but this UA is meh on everything but an archipelago/small islands map. Simply doesn't do enough in the early game to be useful, and in the mid/late game you can just build privateers. The reduced maintenence is nice, but not enough.
Achaemenid Legacy 25
Wayfinding 14
The Glory of Rome 29
Siberian Riches 20
Father Governs Children 25 (+1) Before GK it was easy to write off this UA for the same reason Patriarchate stinks (see above): a dependent benefit with no help getting there. Now that you can just pop 2 policies into patronage to get friendship with EVERY CS ON THE PLANET, with no risk of them being wiped out in a war against you (not allies after all) this UA is just fantastic. Hell its so good, AI Siam can even use it well! I'd be shocked if it isn't Top 10.
Seven Cities of Gold 12
Nobel Prize 20
River Warlord 19

Father Governs Children 25 (+1) Before GK it was easy to write off this UA for the same reason Patriarchate stinks (see above): a dependent benefit with no help getting there. Now that you can just pop 2 policies into patronage to get friendship with EVERY CS ON THE PLANET, with no risk of them being wiped out in a war against you (not allies after all) this UA is just fantastic. Hell its so good, AI Siam can even use it well! I'd be shocked if it isn't Top 10.

Click to expand...

What two policies do this? Friendship starts at 40 relations, right?

Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 13
Diplomatic Marriage 17 (+1)
Sacrificial Captives 23
Ingenuity 13
Patriarchate of Constantinople 4 (-2)
Phoenician Heritage 29
Druidic Lore 8
Art of War 21
Viking Fury 15
Monument Builders 23
Sun Never Sets 22
Spirit of Adwa 7
Ancien Regime 24
Hellenic League 20
Scourge of God 6
Great Andean Road 25
The Great Warpath 12
Bushido 10
Scholars of the Jade Hall 21
The Long Count 17
Mongol Terror 8
Dutch East India Company 24
Barbary Corsairs 8
Achaemenid Legacy 25
Wayfinding 14
The Glory of Rome 29
Siberian Riches 20
Father Governs Children 25
Seven Cities of Gold 12
Nobel Prize 20
River Warlord 19

Diplomatic Marriage: Even with the nerf coming up in the patch, this is probably the best UA. As long as you can get the money, you can have land almost anywhere you want. You could even transplant your entire civilization if you needed to, as long as you have the cash. I've often bought up a CS just for a convenient base on another continent or for a war.

Patriarchate of Constantinople: I'm trying to judge these based on the UA alone and not the other benefits a civ gets, but even on a map where no other civs exist that have faith bonuses, this UA is still just not good enough. Another person lucky enough to be near a natural wonder or faith CS can blow you away. I think this UA is very fun, but it needs it's own way to generate faith; even if that way would be difficult to do, it still needs to be built into it.

jacksone7 said:

What two policies do this? Friendship starts at 40 relations, right?

Click to expand...

Patronage Opener + the Right hand side one that raises to 20. Pledge to protect and you're at 30, which gives you friendship.

Patronage Opener + the Right hand side one that raises to 20. Pledge to protect and you're at 30, which gives you friendship.

Click to expand...

Ah, forgot about the pledge to protect.

Manifest Destiny 16
Trade Caravans 13
Diplomatic Marriage 17
Sacrificial Captives 23
Ingenuity 13
Patriarchate of Constantinople 5
Phoenician Heritage 29
Druidic Lore 8
Art of War 21
Viking Fury 15
Monument Builders 23
Sun Never Sets 22
Spirit of Adwa 5
Ancien Regime 24
Hellenic League 20
Scourge of God 6
Great Andean Road 25
The Great Warpath 12
Bushido 10
Scholars of the Jade Hall 21
The Long Count 17
Mongol Terror 8
Dutch East India Company 24
Barbary Corsairs 8
Achaemenid Legacy 25
Wayfinding 14
The Glory of Rome 29
Siberian Riches 20
Father Governs Children 25
Seven Cities of Gold 12
Nobel Prize 20
River Warlord 19

Byzantium: That it doesn't work well with the UU's is a synergy problem, not a UA problem. That it takes investment to get is a bit of a problem, but worth it cos the benefit is sick if you do it properly. Aesthetically I love it cos it makes HS tip top WW priority, which is not the case for a lot of other civs and their native WW's.

Ethiopia: Like the UA above, has severe synergy problems. However, unlike the UA above, is very inward looking and of no real benefit to any kind of vc, it's just negative prolonging of inevitable crushing by runaway AI.

Manifest Destiny 17 (+1)
Trade Caravans 13
Diplomatic Marriage 17
Sacrificial Captives 23
Ingenuity 13
Patriarchate of Constantinople 5
Phoenician Heritage 29
Druidic Lore 8
Art of War 21
Viking Fury 15
Monument Builders 23
Sun Never Sets 22
Spirit of Adwa 5
Ancien Regime 24
Hellenic League 20
Scourge of God 6
Great Andean Road 25
The Great Warpath 12
Bushido 10
Scholars of the Jade Hall 21
The Long Count 17
Mongol Terror 6 (-2)
Dutch East India Company 24
Barbary Corsairs 8
Achaemenid Legacy 25
Wayfinding 14
The Glory of Rome 29
Siberian Riches 20
Father Governs Children 25
Seven Cities of Gold 12
Nobel Prize 20
River Warlord 19

Mongol Terror: very underwhelming; a bonus that helps a little bit but isn't required at all. Also, attacking too many city states has big diplomacy penalties anyway.

Manifest Destiny: +1 vision during war is overpowered.

Dreadnought said:

Mongol Terror: very underwhelming; a bonus that helps a little bit but isn't required at all. Also, attacking too many city states has big diplomacy penalties anyway.

Manifest Destiny: +1 vision during war is overpowered.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure about mongol terror. Obviously the CS part is rubbish, but I'm trying to work out if we're counting the added movement of mounted to the keshik. It should be, as the keshik is mounted, but it already says the keshik has 5 movement in civilopedia. Whether this is counted as a UA benefit or a UU benefit determines whether I like mongol terror or not.