DGDobrev
Warlord
You are completely correct, but at least that will give the opportunity for other people who care little or not about the challenge to play your map with their favorite civ. It's a great one btw.
An Unofficial Science Competition -- paying homage to Mesix
- Thread starter Hammer Rabbi
- Start date
You are completely correct, but at least that will give the opportunity for other people who care little or not about the challenge to play your map with their favorite civ. It's a great one btw.
PhilBowles
Deity
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NwabudikeMorgan
CEO
To continue what PhilBowles is discussing, the Maya UA is also handy for a few other reasons:
lets assume you took a GS first, ok so thats just a free GS, nice.
Then like he said, a GE for something important like Porcelain tower, which gives +science from RA AND a GS, so good work.
The GA option is not bad, because you'll be teching hard, and Golden Ages give your cities extra hammers to build those public schools or observatories you need, as well as culture to get you through rationalism and gold for rushing buildings in cities with low hammer counts.
After this the choices become a big more vague.
The GG can be extremely handy if you have agressive neighbours, or if you want to go conquering for some puppets. The GM can always grab you cash in a pinch and save you 500 gold in keeping up those city states you want to have allied, because maritime=growth=science, cultural=policies=science, and mercantile=happies=golden ages and population. all these things lead to a more well rounded science making machine.
the great admiral is garbage. the end. useless on a pangaea, and nearly useless eveywhere else, and if you're on islands or something, why bother, the AI is so brain damaged when it comes to naval warfare anyway.
prophet can be nice if you want to enhance your religion or bump off someone else's holy city,but not a huge deal.
lets assume you took a GS first, ok so thats just a free GS, nice.
Then like he said, a GE for something important like Porcelain tower, which gives +science from RA AND a GS, so good work.
The GA option is not bad, because you'll be teching hard, and Golden Ages give your cities extra hammers to build those public schools or observatories you need, as well as culture to get you through rationalism and gold for rushing buildings in cities with low hammer counts.
After this the choices become a big more vague.
The GG can be extremely handy if you have agressive neighbours, or if you want to go conquering for some puppets. The GM can always grab you cash in a pinch and save you 500 gold in keeping up those city states you want to have allied, because maritime=growth=science, cultural=policies=science, and mercantile=happies=golden ages and population. all these things lead to a more well rounded science making machine.
the great admiral is garbage. the end. useless on a pangaea, and nearly useless eveywhere else, and if you're on islands or something, why bother, the AI is so brain damaged when it comes to naval warfare anyway.
prophet can be nice if you want to enhance your religion or bump off someone else's holy city,but not a huge deal.
Yes the admiral is garbage, but it's free garbage! Does not slow down the great person generation of your other great people (nor does the great prophet or great general). Admittedly the Great Merchant is probably bad, and the Great artist is not horribly useful, but both are small boosts. Overall the Mayans will generate more great people which is a pretty good UA.
Maya's real science bonus come from his UB and the first gs taken. After that time this can be a bit problematic if you have no choice but to take a gp that will delay other gs. Babylon can produce 2 more gs over 200 turns of play than any other civs. But Mayan's UB can overcome that effect a bit.
Well i will find in some days who is really the best
I'm actually not sure if it's a good idea to use a ge for a wonder excepted hubble(though Ribannah found a way to hard build it in his last science GOTM game). It's better to gather
and rush buy useful buildings and hard build every wonders needed. That way, you have more gp to use for other things. If i get more than 1 ge i will settle it.
Pisa is not serving all cities. Actually, it really serves only 1 or 2 cities. For best time possible, you need to really enhance 1 or 2 cities for gp production(early gardens, NE), to get 1 or 2 more gs earlier. Cities 3-4 and maybe 5 will only need to produce 1 gs each, Pisa early or not.
Of course, the most important thing you should focus are population and big cities, whatever your peaceful victory condition. This should be your #1 focus way before gs production. Populated cities = production, gold AND science.
Well i will find in some days who is really the best
I'm actually not sure if it's a good idea to use a ge for a wonder excepted hubble(though Ribannah found a way to hard build it in his last science GOTM game). It's better to gather
and rush buy useful buildings and hard build every wonders needed. That way, you have more gp to use for other things. If i get more than 1 ge i will settle it.Pisa is not serving all cities. Actually, it really serves only 1 or 2 cities. For best time possible, you need to really enhance 1 or 2 cities for gp production(early gardens, NE), to get 1 or 2 more gs earlier. Cities 3-4 and maybe 5 will only need to produce 1 gs each, Pisa early or not.
Of course, the most important thing you should focus are population and big cities, whatever your peaceful victory condition. This should be your #1 focus way before gs production. Populated cities = production, gold AND science.
PhilBowles
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Maya's real science bonus come from his UB and the first gs taken. After that time this can be a bit problematic if you have no choice but to take a gp that will delay other gs. Babylon can produce 2 more gs over 200 turns of play than any other civs. But Mayan's UB can overcome that effect a bit.
Well i will find in some days who is really the best
I'm actually not sure if it's a good idea to use a ge for a wonder excepted hubble(though Ribannah found a way to hard build it in his last science GOTM game). It's better to gather
I wouldn't say it's a good idea generally to get a GE for Hubble. Firstly, at least as these three civs in a situation where you know the others aren't in the same game (not that the AI plays Maya to tech hard anyway), you don't need the boost to get the spaceship first. Secondly, a GE will accelerate production but won't complete it. Thirdly, the AI doesn't prioritise Hubble so you don't usually need to rush it anyway.
Regarding other Wonders, I'd much rather have the hammers to devote to other projects if I can use a GE to produce the Wonder. If I'm the Maya I get the GE anyway, so don't need to devote citizens to workshops to produce the single GE I'm likely to want during a game. It can be especially useful with Porcelain Tower, since the timing of Architecture (at least as I play) means that with a GE I can usually get the 50% bonus before my first RA completes, while otherwise I usually finish building PT after the first RA is over. Pisa I might not actually build if I don't have a GE to hand (unless I'm non-Maya and want it mainly for the purposes of creating a GE), but it's definitely worth it with the Mayan GE.
And indeed specialists to put in those universities and research labs.
Well it depends of your time length from the hubble tech to other ones. If i can research in less than 15 turns all other spaceship techs it means that i only have maybe 10 or 11 turns to hard build Hubble. You need a very strong capital to hard build Hubble in time, assuming that you are going to clear all other techs very fast.
For this map, it might be better to hard build hubble. Maybe i will do it for other games if i can figure if i actually have time to make it by myself.
iggymnrr
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Tried this out with Babylon and liberty. After playing around with other civs the map is hard to forget. It has two great features for liberty aside from a lot of open space: a nearby mercantile CS and that thingy. 75 turns in, with an empire unencumbered by buildings except monuments/shrines + 1 CS quest (Stonehenge):
From this position to a space win is ~150 turns or ~turn 225.
Spoiler :
Attachments
Actually, the Great Prophet does increase the cost of other great people.
I finished my game with Babs.
Turn 211 : I reached a peak in bpt. I managed to get a last gs from faith.
Too bad...i was 1 tech too short for a sub 200 turns win
My 2 last gs from Hubble can't clear last 3 techs at once. I have to wait for a last manual gs from a city and hubble to finish all techs 8 turns later. Finally enhanced my religion 
(+15% production for last part).
Turn 220 : Peak producrtion in capital under a last turn of ga(we can probably reach over 300
per turn). I did some hammer overflow here. Last part took 3 turns.
And that's it. Next civ will be Korea. I keep Maya for the end
Turn 211 : I reached a peak in bpt. I managed to get a last gs from faith.
Spoiler :
Too bad...i was 1 tech too short for a sub 200 turns win
My 2 last gs from Hubble can't clear last 3 techs at once. I have to wait for a last manual gs from a city and hubble to finish all techs 8 turns later. Finally enhanced my religion (+15% production for last part).Spoiler :
Turn 220 : Peak producrtion in capital under a last turn of ga(we can probably reach over 300
per turn). I did some hammer overflow here. Last part took 3 turns. Spoiler :
And that's it. Next civ will be Korea. I keep Maya for the end
Spoiler :
@Hammer Rabbi: As people finish the Unofficial Competition, perhaps you could update the OP with the top 5 finish dates for each civ (and who accomplished it). Then it feels more like a competition and the results can easily be viewed in the first post. edit: As an alternative, perhaps the 2nd post could be the results post.
Syntax Error
Prince
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@Tabarnak: did you use RA's for that?
Yes. 2 waves of 3 and 2 RAs(without a bug).
Syntax Error
Prince
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I'm guessing you paid extra...
Still perfecting my game. After I get the Hubble, it still takes me 30-50 turns to get the remaining techs. Even with Rationalism Finisher and Oxford. That's why I still sign/have active RA's after I get the tech.
Still perfecting my game. After I get the Hubble, it still takes me 30-50 turns to get the remaining techs. Even with Rationalism Finisher and Oxford. That's why I still sign/have active RA's after I get the tech.
PhilBowles
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I once had a second city that built it in 9 turns.
But Hubble isn't for the techs anyway, it's for spaceship production, which it accelerates massively - usually more than 10-11 turns. If your lead is sufficient that you genuinely don't need it for either, then why build it at all?
What is the RA bug being mentioned?
@Hammer Rabbi: If you are going to create additional civ(s) for the map, could you prepare a start as Siam? I haven't played Siam post G&K yet, and I would like to give them a whirl on this comparison map if you have the time to add another starting save.
DGDobrev
Warlord
Hmm, Tabarnak, how did you manage to keep the other civs friendly enough for RA's? I took Copenhagen as well, cause it makes a great city on the road to the Fountain of Youth, but in the end, everyone took me for a warmongering menace. The only thing I can think of is just expand and make Harald angry enough to DOW me and then beat him up without repercussions - the only problem is that it takes a long while for him to DOW, as if I expand very quickly, he gets afraid...
ifinnem
Keep it interesting
2 GS to burn based on your peak bpt isn't for science? Have to disagree here...
If you kill an entire civilization before they meet some other players you don't suffer from these penalties. Under 60 turns you have time to not let Denmark encounter too much civs. If you have a possibility to kill his scout(he will appear 2 turns north of our capital somewhere) that should be even better
@iggymnr : That's some impressive stats. 7 cities? Did you annex Copenhagen?
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