bcool
Deity
I played through the test game and I think a switch to caste/pacifism can be delayed T141-2 since this allows us to whip some nice buildings in the side cities like courthouses and lighthouses.
SGOTM 14 - Kakumeika
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
bcool
Deity
suggestions in blue
Here is what I have so far. I am workin' my tail at the office and spent all my waking free time the last two night on this:
appreciate the hard work
The micro isn't as important initially as the goals for the turn set. Since the micro changes as the team settles on what is important. And our goals change as we see what is really possible in the game. I appreciate you trying to stick to what I estimated in the Great People Plan but that I think has changed now that I see what is possible with whips.
Plus posting goals would have let us help you with the aspects of the plan earlier. Let us help work out some of the details so you can work, eat, sleep and prep for the turn set.
Washington
Spoiler :
Washington
T 134 Tao Monestary
T 135 Uni Work 2 Pmine, Gmine.(Don't work 2 lake, 1 Grass)
T 136 Uni Work 2 Pmine, grass (Don't work 2 lake, 1 Gmine)
T 137 Uni Work Pmine, Gmine, grass
T 138 Whip Uni,
T 139 Oxford, work 2 Pmines, 1 gmine
T 140 Anarchy, CS/Pacifism
T 141 Oxford, grow
T 142 Oxford, grow
T 143 Oxford, grow
T 144 Oxford, grow
I think we want to wait to switch as I said above for T142 or so. This doesn't affect Washington too much, but it might open up the possibility of delaying the whip of the university so it is 2 pop whip instead of a 3 pop whip.
Stone
Spoiler :
Stone City
T 134 Tao Monestary
T 135 Uni Work 2 coast, Gmine to Washington
T 136 Uni Work 1 coast, gmine
T 137 Whip Univ 31 hammer overflow into monestary
T 138 Monestary
T 139 Barracks
T 140 Anarchy
T 141 Barracks
T 142 Courthouse
T 143 Courthouse
T 144 Courthouse
If we delay the university I think a whip of courthouse here is possible.
Gems
Spoiler :
Gems
T 134 AP
T 135 Work fort, GE, Uni
T 136 Switch farmed plains to working Pmine, Whip 36 hammer overflow into AP
T 137 AP Work GE, Farmed plains
T 138 AP, Work Farmed plains, GE
T 139 Barracks
T 140 Anarchy
T 141 Barracks, work scientist, not coast tiles
T 142 Barracks, work scientist, not coast tiles
T 143 Courthouse, work scientist, not coast tiles
T 144 Courthouse, work scientist, not coast tiles
looks like you are getting the AP a turn earlier with this, that is good. If we delay the switch I would start a courthouse and look at whipping this as well.
GPFarm
Spoiler :
GP Farm
T 134 Tao Monestary
T 135 Remove GS, work coast instead. Uni
T 136 Whip uni, remove both Pmines work 2 more coast
T 137 Work coast, no mines. Monestary
T 138 Monestary
T 139 Courthouse
T 140 Anarchy
If we delay the switch you can finish the monastery then probably build a missionary, so you might not want to turn off the mines. I think we will very very slowly build a courthouse here after the switch.
Silver
Spoiler :
Silver
T 134 Build Barracks
T 135 Start Univ Work Pmine, not coast
T 136 Univ Work coast tile
T 137 Work silver, Pmine
T 138 Whip Univ
T 139 Missionary
T 140 Anarchy
Silver can build the university without a whip in 3 turns. I would do this so Silver can get us a great person that much faster after the switch. If you don't whip the university, you might be able to still build/whip a courthouse before a later switch.
Isengard
Spoiler :
Isengard
T 134 Maoi
T 135 Maoi
T 136 Maoi
T 137 add pop to coast.
T 139 Finish Maoi Start HE, add pop to coast
T 140 Anarchy
When it is possible to grow Isengard 1 turn earlier by turning of the coppermine for coast I think you should do it. I think this happens twice in the next 10 turns. It pains me, but I think it makes sense to turn off the spy specialist here.
Cultural Bridge
Spoiler :
Cultural Bridge
T 134 Courthouse
T 135 Work both PH, Univ
T 136 Work both PH, Univ
T 137 Work both PH, Univ
T 138 Whip Univ Work Ocean tiles
T 139 Courthouse, work 2 Pmines
T 140 Anarchy
Cultural Bridge probably will be able to whip a courthouse if we delay the switch. (And taoism spread successfully)
Marble City
Spoiler :
Marble City
T 134 Courthouse
T 135 CH, Work Gmine
T 136 CH, Work Gmine
T 137 CH, Work All grass
T 138 CH, Work Gmine
T 139 CH, Work Gmine,
T 140 Whip Courthouse, Anarchy
Phants
Spoiler :
Phants
T 135 LH
T 136 LH
T 137 Whip LH
T 138 Barracks
T 139 Barracks
T 140 Anarchy
I think Phants wants a courthouse instead of a barracks especially if we delay the switch.
Sheep City
Spoiler :
Sheep City
T 135 LH
T 136 LH
T 137 LH, work sugar
T 138 LH, Work sugar
T 139 LH, Sugar, unimp grass
T 140 Whip LH (if possible) Anarchy
Ah nice I see you stole the sugar from gems so you can whip the lighthouse. Might want to look at stealing the seafood from gems to see if this would let you whip something else if you delay the switch.
Fur City
Spoiler :
Fur City
T 135 1st chop
T 136 2nd chop
T 137 Finish Granary, Start Monestary or courthouse.
T 138 Monestary or courthouse
T 139 Monestary or courthouse
T 140 Monestary or courthouse
I think the monastery might be a bad idea here (I know it was my idea). Fur City never will have a lot of production so I doubt we will be building too many missionaries here. So courthouse instead. And delaying the switch here lets us get more OR enhanced chops in.
I think you want to whip Fur City after the 1st chop. That allows you to get a OR enhanced whip in before we switch over. Which allows us to finish that courthouse before the switch I believe.
Captured Barb city
Spoiler :
Captured Barb City Gaul
T 137 Granary
T 138 Granary
T 139 Granary
T 140 Anarchy
I think Kaitzilla's idea of whipping a spy here is a good one. Then we actually might want to build a courthouse before a granary. I know crazy right? But by building a courthouse, 3 chops might just be enough to finish the courthouse, while if we build a granary first the courthouse will be built 15+ turns later. I would rather have a courthouse here first than see this guy grow a little faster.
Worker Goals:
Add farm by Phants, mine iron.
Farm grassland by stone, Farm Plains north of oasis at stone to set up irrigation.
Farm by Marble city
Farm south of lake by Silver city
Chop forests by Fur City
Road to Barb City Gaul
Chop jungle north of gems, then farm
Workshops around Sheep city.
Spies in Asoka's lands?
Research
Edu => Liberalism 0%
ah yes good idea to put a little bit into liberalism while we build the research buildings and wait for the AI to tech compass optics.
Trade music to Shaka
Consider trading Paper
Great Spy
Search out Monte's lands.specifically the barbarian city where we suspect the wizard is. Then back to the northern witches so we can infiltrate them.
Galley
Needs a plan
carry missionary that could be built in GPFarm before the switch to Genghis
Workers
Stevenson
Farm by Phants, Mine iron, mine Ghill
I would build a grass hill mine before the iron.
Eiffel
Farm by Silver City and Phants
Hoover and Semiramis
Farm around marble, set up irritation farm 1W of Stone city. Workshop 1W of Washington's cows.
Worker 8
Chop jungle north of Gems, then farm it.
Goodtyear and Fritz
Workshops around Sheep City, Chop for Heroic Epic.
Karl
Chops around fur city
Ramamujan
Chops 1F, then roads to Gaul
Yamasake
Chops 1F, the goes to Gaul to chop/improve.
Exploration units
Continue exploration.
More to come tonight.
Espionage:
Steal Compass form west witches.
Steal from Liz/ Genghis possibly drama or other.
set up steal of optics immediately after compass.
take a look at how the espionage is distributed and adjust so you can maintain vision on tech and put as much as possible on the northern witches
Diplo and stopping points will be stated tomorrow.
mabraham
Deity
I am happy to delay the switch to Caste a few turns if it means multiple courthouses.
Regarding the second infiltration, I think it is wrong to put our excess EPs on north now, and then infiltrate them later. I've not seen any reason yet to suppose the West will not continue to be faster than the other AIs, and so we might as well continue to do the main stealing from them, so infiltrate them when our stockpile starts to get low. If we got another couple of espionage diplo penalties, then I could see switching the infiltration to North and the excess EPs to West. How many espionage penalties will Monte's real personality allow?
Regarding the second infiltration, I think it is wrong to put our excess EPs on north now, and then infiltrate them later. I've not seen any reason yet to suppose the West will not continue to be faster than the other AIs, and so we might as well continue to do the main stealing from them, so infiltrate them when our stockpile starts to get low. If we got another couple of espionage diplo penalties, then I could see switching the infiltration to North and the excess EPs to West. How many espionage penalties will Monte's real personality allow?
The micro has Washington making a 2-pop whip on T138 with ~37 overflow hammers that go into the Ox U. This relies on Silver city doing the one pop-whip on or before T 138. I can do the one pop whip on T 136, get fewer overflow hammers, but start rebuilding the population more quickly.
I am not 100% on the whipping of the lighthouse in Sheep city because the practice game keeps getting a spy induced production sabotage. The delay in civic switch will ensure the LH can be whipped. Culture city will surely be able to whip a courthouse.
We should consider whipping a courthouse in GP farm after the University. The micro can be retooled to be more hammer heavy. The population will grow back quickly. The GSs can't be run right anyway, waiting on the GE pop. The missionary would be cut out of the plans.
I am not 100% on the whipping of the lighthouse in Sheep city because the practice game keeps getting a spy induced production sabotage. The delay in civic switch will ensure the LH can be whipped. Culture city will surely be able to whip a courthouse.
We should consider whipping a courthouse in GP farm after the University. The micro can be retooled to be more hammer heavy. The population will grow back quickly. The GSs can't be run right anyway, waiting on the GE pop. The missionary would be cut out of the plans.
bcool
Deity
Here is what is possible if we delay the switch to caste/pacifism to T143
Washington university and finishes Oxford T146
Stone whips university, finishes monastery, whips courthouse, overflow to temple
Gems whips university, finishes AP, whips courthouse, and finishes monastery on T144
GPFarm whips university 2 pop?, monastery, missionary
Silver, slow build University in 3 turns (with OF and chop already completed), whips courthouse (2 pop), starts temple
Isengard Moai and finishes HE T144 (no chop -forget to do this in my run thru) With a delay chop will be OR enhanced.
Cultural Bridge University and courthouse whipped
Marble Courthouse, monastery and temple whipped
Phants, lighthouse and max OF into courthouse
Sheep lighthouse
Fur City could have courthouse and lighthouse by the end with OR enhanced chops and a 1 pop whip of the granary. (I built a monastery here in the test game I attached but I think that is a bad idea now)
My worker actions are not very good in the test game. I think shulec's worker actions are better thought out.
Washington university and finishes Oxford T146
Stone whips university, finishes monastery, whips courthouse, overflow to temple
Gems whips university, finishes AP, whips courthouse, and finishes monastery on T144
GPFarm whips university 2 pop?, monastery, missionary
Silver, slow build University in 3 turns (with OF and chop already completed), whips courthouse (2 pop), starts temple
Isengard Moai and finishes HE T144 (no chop -forget to do this in my run thru) With a delay chop will be OR enhanced.
Cultural Bridge University and courthouse whipped
Marble Courthouse, monastery and temple whipped
Phants, lighthouse and max OF into courthouse
Sheep lighthouse
Fur City could have courthouse and lighthouse by the end with OR enhanced chops and a 1 pop whip of the granary. (I built a monastery here in the test game I attached but I think that is a bad idea now)
My worker actions are not very good in the test game. I think shulec's worker actions are better thought out.
About the test game, the plot 1N of Boston is a plains tile, not a grassland.
I was also still getting some crashes in my tests.
I was also still getting some crashes in my tests.
mabraham
Deity
Going back a turn in the saved game and editing out the AI spy with the WorldBuilder fixes this.
bcool
Deity
Does not 260 gold speed us up more than it slows them down?
The war target is a good point. They seem to have a hair trigger for somebody.
It seems like the North Witches and East Witches won't be trading maps with anyone much for a while. The 260 gold for a Paper that would be researched soon anyway seems like a gift for us to exploit thanks to our spy vision.
I always reflexively trade techs for gold I can see the AI pursuing when they are almost finished in espionage games. I hardly ever gift Techs to alter AI teching behavior, so I'm just speaking from my experience. I'll drop the idea if you still feel strongly about holding onto Paper and trading Music instead
2 turns for an AI team is 4 turns of a normal AI's tech. It took them only 4 turns to tech paper, so we are giving them half of paper for 260 gold. It will not be a fair trade. I suspect we would be able to get most of the 260 gold if they only had 1 turn left on paper.
This is one reason why I think we should give them music instead. The paper trade is far from fair and it accelerates a liberalism tech. We went to a lot of trouble to get philosophy first to discourage the liberalism path, I think we can trade music instead of paper to continue to discourage the AI from getting liberalism.
So yes I feel strongly about it I guess.
edit: Bizarre I tested the paper trade and mansa will give 40 gold for paper and Shaka will give 260 gold for it. So I guess I'm wrong about them giving 260 gold for a 1 turn to finish tech estimate, but it seems like they are close to a 1 turn finish of paper since Mansa would only give 40 gold for it.
bcool
Deity
In the real game, the backup spy for Trojan Horse could wait in Sheep City at least while the other spy is building up stationary espionage bonuses. The backup spy would provide some protection from a spy doing damage to our real Sheep city.
I strongly agree with holding back paper, but agree to trade music.
The above is incorrect, the whip is not needed in silver city.
Civics
T 142 switch to CS/Pacifism.
Switch to Bureaucracy situational if we get CS. Consult with forum if we get this.
Washington
T 134 Tao Monestary
T 135 Uni Work 2 Pmine, Gmine. 47 H. (Don't work 2 lake, 1 Grass)
T 136 Uni Work 2 Pmine, grass (Don't work 2 lake, 1 Gmine)
T 137 Uni Work Pmine, Gmine, grass
T 138 Whip Uni,
T 139 Oxford, 3 mines
T 140 Oxford 3 mines
T 141 Oxford, grow
T 142 Oxford, grow
T 143 Oxford, grow
T 144 Oxford, grow
Gems
T 134 AP
T 135 Work fort, GE, Uni
T 136 Switch farmed plains to working Pmine, Whip 36 hammer overflow into AP
T 137 AP Work GE, Farmed plains
T 138 AP, Work Farmed plains, GE
T 139 courthouse
T 140 Whip courthouse, 3 pop
T 141 Tao Missionary
T 142 Barrracks, Anarchy
T 143 Barracks
T 144 Barracks
Stone City
T 134 Tao Monestary
T 135 Uni Work 2 coast, Gmine to Washington
T 136 Uni Work 1 coast, gmine
T 137 Whip Univ 31 hammer overflow into monestary
T 138 Monestary
T 139 courthouse
T 140 courthouse
T 141 courthouse
T 142 Whip courthouse, anarchy
T 143 finish courthouse
T 144 barracks
Marble City
T 134 Courthouse
T 135 CH, Work Gmine
T 136 CH, Work Gmine
T 137 CH, Work All grass
T 138 CH, Work Gmine
T 139 CH, Work all grass
T 140 CH, Work all grass
T 141 CH, Work all grass
T 142 Whip CH, anarchy
T 143 Finish Courthouse
T 144 barracks
GP
T 134 Tao Monestary
T 135 Remove GS, work all mines. Uni
T 136 Univ, change one Gmine to coast
T 137 Whip Uni Work all coast, no mines.
T 138 Monestary
T 139 Courthouse
T 140 3 pop whip courthouse
T 141 Missionary
T 142 Missionary,
T 143 Missionary
T 144 Barracks
Culture City
T 134 Courthouse
T 135 Work all mines, Univ
T 136 all mines, Univ
T 137 Work both PH, Univ
T 138 Whip Univ Work Ocean tiles
T 139 Courthouse, work 2 Pmines
T 140 Courthouse, work 2 pmines
T 141 Courthouse, 2 mines
T 142 Whip courthouse, Anarchy
T 143 Finish courthouse
T 144 Barracks
Isengard
T 134 Maoi,
T 135 Maoi, No copper tile.
T 136 Maoi
T 137 add pop to coast.
T 139 Finish Maoi Start HE,
T 140 HE, no copper tile
T 141 HE
T 142 Anarchy
T 143 HE
T 144 HE
Phants
T 135 LH
T 136 LH
T 137 Whip LH
T 138 Courthouse
T 139 Courthouse
T 140 Courthouse
T 141 Courthouse
T 142 Courthouse
T 143 Courthouse
T 144 Courthouse
Silver City
T 134 Build wealth
T 135 Start Univ Work 3 mines
T 136 Univ Work 3 mines
T 137 Uni
T 138 Courthouse
T 139 courthouse
T 140 Courthouse
T 141 Courthouse
T 142 Whip Courthouse, Anarchy
T 143 finish courthouse
T 144 Barracks
Fur
T 135 1st chop, granary
T 136 Whip granary, then 2nd chop
T 137 courthouse.
T 138 courthouse
T 139 courthouse
T 140 courthouse
T 141 LH
T 142 LH
T 143 LH
T 144 LH
Barb City Gaul
T 137 spy
T 138 Spy
T 139 Spy
T 140 spy
T 141 Whip Spy
T 142 courthouse
T 143 courthouse
T 144 courthouse
Sheep City
T 135 LH
T 136 LH
T 137 LH, work sugar
T 138 LH, Work sugar
T 139 LH, Sugar, unimp grass
T 140 Whip Lighthouse
T 141 Courthouse
T 142 courthouse
T 143 courthouse
T 144 courthouse
Research
Edu => Liberalism 0%, no 100% slider this time.
Great Spy
Search out Monte's lands.
Galley
Missionary transport west
Workers
Stevenson
Farm by Phants, Mine iron, mine Ghill
Eiffel
Farm by Silver City and Phants
Hoover and Semiramis
Farm around marble, set up irritation farm 1W of Stone city. Workshop 1W of Washington's cows.
Worker 8
Chop jungle north of Gems, then farm it.
Goodtyear and Fritz
Workshops around Sheep City, Chop for Heroic Epic prior to civ switch
Karl
Chops around fur city
Ramamujan
Chops 1F, then roads to Gaul
Yamasake
Chops 1F, the goes to Gaul to chop/improve.
Exploration units
Continue exploration.
Spies stay out of cities to decrease risk of detection.
Spies in Asokas lands. One stay and wander, gathering intel. The other return to hub.
Espionage
Steal Compass.
Watch research for engineering, civil service, optics and drama.
Great People
No GS until GE born on T 145
Trades
Trade Music to Shaka for gold.
After AP built, see how much fail gold AI will have for trade.
Begging
Possibly beg Shaka if he builds his gold back up.
AI demands
Give in to north and west witches for gold (unless > 200), resources, nearly finished techs that are not paper, philo, or edu.
Do not accept stop trading demands, change religion or war demands. Do not accept favorite civic demands.
Consult Forum for trade demands.
When to play. I can play in about 6 hours from this post. I can wait until tomorrow based on what the team wants.
T 142 switch to CS/Pacifism.
Switch to Bureaucracy situational if we get CS. Consult with forum if we get this.
Washington
T 134 Tao Monestary
T 135 Uni Work 2 Pmine, Gmine. 47 H. (Don't work 2 lake, 1 Grass)
T 136 Uni Work 2 Pmine, grass (Don't work 2 lake, 1 Gmine)
T 137 Uni Work Pmine, Gmine, grass
T 138 Whip Uni,
T 139 Oxford, 3 mines
T 140 Oxford 3 mines
T 141 Oxford, grow
T 142 Oxford, grow
T 143 Oxford, grow
T 144 Oxford, grow
Gems
T 134 AP
T 135 Work fort, GE, Uni
T 136 Switch farmed plains to working Pmine, Whip 36 hammer overflow into AP
T 137 AP Work GE, Farmed plains
T 138 AP, Work Farmed plains, GE
T 139 courthouse
T 140 Whip courthouse, 3 pop
T 141 Tao Missionary
T 142 Barrracks, Anarchy
T 143 Barracks
T 144 Barracks
Stone City
T 134 Tao Monestary
T 135 Uni Work 2 coast, Gmine to Washington
T 136 Uni Work 1 coast, gmine
T 137 Whip Univ 31 hammer overflow into monestary
T 138 Monestary
T 139 courthouse
T 140 courthouse
T 141 courthouse
T 142 Whip courthouse, anarchy
T 143 finish courthouse
T 144 barracks
Marble City
T 134 Courthouse
T 135 CH, Work Gmine
T 136 CH, Work Gmine
T 137 CH, Work All grass
T 138 CH, Work Gmine
T 139 CH, Work all grass
T 140 CH, Work all grass
T 141 CH, Work all grass
T 142 Whip CH, anarchy
T 143 Finish Courthouse
T 144 barracks
GP
T 134 Tao Monestary
T 135 Remove GS, work all mines. Uni
T 136 Univ, change one Gmine to coast
T 137 Whip Uni Work all coast, no mines.
T 138 Monestary
T 139 Courthouse
T 140 3 pop whip courthouse
T 141 Missionary
T 142 Missionary,
T 143 Missionary
T 144 Barracks
Culture City
T 134 Courthouse
T 135 Work all mines, Univ
T 136 all mines, Univ
T 137 Work both PH, Univ
T 138 Whip Univ Work Ocean tiles
T 139 Courthouse, work 2 Pmines
T 140 Courthouse, work 2 pmines
T 141 Courthouse, 2 mines
T 142 Whip courthouse, Anarchy
T 143 Finish courthouse
T 144 Barracks
Isengard
T 134 Maoi,
T 135 Maoi, No copper tile.
T 136 Maoi
T 137 add pop to coast.
T 139 Finish Maoi Start HE,
T 140 HE, no copper tile
T 141 HE
T 142 Anarchy
T 143 HE
T 144 HE
Phants
T 135 LH
T 136 LH
T 137 Whip LH
T 138 Courthouse
T 139 Courthouse
T 140 Courthouse
T 141 Courthouse
T 142 Courthouse
T 143 Courthouse
T 144 Courthouse
Silver City
T 134 Build wealth
T 135 Start Univ Work 3 mines
T 136 Univ Work 3 mines
T 137 Uni
T 138 Courthouse
T 139 courthouse
T 140 Courthouse
T 141 Courthouse
T 142 Whip Courthouse, Anarchy
T 143 finish courthouse
T 144 Barracks
Fur
T 135 1st chop, granary
T 136 Whip granary, then 2nd chop
T 137 courthouse.
T 138 courthouse
T 139 courthouse
T 140 courthouse
T 141 LH
T 142 LH
T 143 LH
T 144 LH
Barb City Gaul
T 137 spy
T 138 Spy
T 139 Spy
T 140 spy
T 141 Whip Spy
T 142 courthouse
T 143 courthouse
T 144 courthouse
Sheep City
T 135 LH
T 136 LH
T 137 LH, work sugar
T 138 LH, Work sugar
T 139 LH, Sugar, unimp grass
T 140 Whip Lighthouse
T 141 Courthouse
T 142 courthouse
T 143 courthouse
T 144 courthouse
Research
Edu => Liberalism 0%, no 100% slider this time.
Great Spy
Search out Monte's lands.
Galley
Missionary transport west
Workers
Stevenson
Farm by Phants, Mine iron, mine Ghill
Eiffel
Farm by Silver City and Phants
Hoover and Semiramis
Farm around marble, set up irritation farm 1W of Stone city. Workshop 1W of Washington's cows.
Worker 8
Chop jungle north of Gems, then farm it.
Goodtyear and Fritz
Workshops around Sheep City, Chop for Heroic Epic prior to civ switch
Karl
Chops around fur city
Ramamujan
Chops 1F, then roads to Gaul
Yamasake
Chops 1F, the goes to Gaul to chop/improve.
Exploration units
Continue exploration.
Spies stay out of cities to decrease risk of detection.
Spies in Asokas lands. One stay and wander, gathering intel. The other return to hub.
Espionage
Steal Compass.
Watch research for engineering, civil service, optics and drama.
Great People
No GS until GE born on T 145
Trades
Trade Music to Shaka for gold.
After AP built, see how much fail gold AI will have for trade.
Begging
Possibly beg Shaka if he builds his gold back up.
AI demands
Give in to north and west witches for gold (unless > 200), resources, nearly finished techs that are not paper, philo, or edu.
Do not accept stop trading demands, change religion or war demands. Do not accept favorite civic demands.
Consult Forum for trade demands.
When to play. I can play in about 6 hours from this post. I can wait until tomorrow based on what the team wants.
bcool
Deity
suggestions in blue
Also we need to be specific about great people. It is important to run as many scientists as possible in GPFarm once we are sure GPFarm will not bet Washington to the next great person. In fact you want to run the scientists in GPFarm so that a great person will be produced in Washington and GPFarm the same turn. A city founded earlier will always produce the great person in a tie. So if washington and GPFarm pass 500 gp the same turn Washington will produce the great engineer. If GPFarm produces more than 100 gp then it can produce the 600 gp great person the same turn Washington produces the Great Engineer.
Silver and Gems will also produce great scientists for us, so they want to run max scientists once they regrow a little bit. Stone City will not produce a great person for us very easily, plus its pool is contaminated. So Stone City can run a spy specialist and merchants if it doesn't have decent tiles to work.
Sheep City can take mines from Gems once Gems starts running a lot of great people.
Sheep probably want to give back the sugar to Gems once it whips its lighthouse.
Also as you continue to explore the south's and east's lands you can try to sell maps to each AI team again and probably get another 5-10 gold every few turns at least as long as you continue to explore new lands.
Check resource trades each turn too to see if you can renegotiate for more gold. I put in a few reminders about that in the real game, but nothing beats checking each turn to see if you can get another gold or 2 in resource trades per turn.
Civics
T 142 switch to CS/Pacifism.
Switch to Bureaucracy situational if we get CS. Consult with forum if we get this.
Washington
T 134 Tao Monestary
T 135 Uni Work 2 Pmine, Gmine. 47 H. (Don't work 2 lake, 1 Grass)
T 136 Uni Work 2 Pmine, grass (Don't work 2 lake, 1 Gmine)
T 137 Uni Work Pmine, Gmine, grass
T 138 Whip Uni,
T 139 Oxford, 3 mines
T 140 Oxford 3 mines
T 141 Oxford, grow
T 142 Oxford, grow
T 143 Oxford, grow
T 144 Oxford, grow
Gems
T 134 AP
T 135 Work fort, GE, Uni
T 136 Switch farmed plains to working Pmine, Whip 36 hammer overflow into AP
T 137 AP Work GE, Farmed plains
T 138 AP, Work Farmed plains, GE
T 139 courthouse
T 140 Whip courthouse, 3 pop
T 141 Tao Missionary
T 142 Barrracks, Anarchy
T 143 Barracks
T 144 Barracks
I like a monastery here instead of a barracks for 3 reasons...
1) The monastery will produce 2 hammers and +10% research in this relatively high hammer and commerce city. This is a good return on the cost of the monastery.
2) Gems can quickly produce a missionary for us since it can be a high hammer city if it needs to be.
3) It likely not produce that many military units. The military units it will produce will likely be drafted and 1 xp isn't that much different than 0xp. Especially since we will not produce more than a couple units in this city. If we want more units from this city they could be boats or airships.
Stone City
T 134 Tao Monestary
T 135 Uni Work 2 coast, Gmine to Washington
T 136 Uni Work 1 coast, gmine
T 137 Whip Univ 31 hammer overflow into monestary
T 138 Monestary
T 139 courthouse
T 140 courthouse
T 141 courthouse
T 142 Whip courthouse, anarchy
T 143 finish courthouse
T 144 barracks
I would rather start a taoist temple than a barracks. A taoist temple with the AP produces 2 hammers for us. We will likely benefit from the temple before we would need to build military units here.
Marble City
T 134 Courthouse
T 135 CH, Work Gmine
T 136 CH, Work Gmine
T 137 CH, Work All grass
T 138 CH, Work Gmine
T 139 CH, Work all grass
T 140 CH, Work all grass
T 141 CH, Work all grass
T 142 Whip CH, anarchy
T 143 Finish Courthouse
T 144 barracks
With more aggressive whipping we can get a courthouse and a taoist temple and/or monastery here. I would much rather whip aggressively and get a taoist temple that gives us 2 hammers than be a bit bigger in this city. Marble will not produce a great person for us, so its population can be sacrificed for useful buildings. A building that produces 2 hammers is worth 2 population or ~30 food population in my opinion. That building will get us easily 80 hammers in the next 40 turns which means we produce other buildings/units that much faster. Or opportunity to whip is going away and I think we want buildings that give us hammers so we will have some production while we are in caste system.
GP
T 134 Tao Monestary
T 135 Remove GS, work all mines. Uni
T 136 Univ, change one Gmine to coast
T 137 Whip Uni Work all coast, no mines.
T 138 Monestary
T 139 Courthouse
T 140 3 pop whip courthouse
T 141 Missionary
T 142 Missionary,
T 143 Missionary
T 144 Barracks
I'm strongly against whipping a courthouse here. We want GP farm to run max specialists. 3 pop here will significantly delay key great people. 3 population means we run at least 30 fewer scientist specialist turns as GPFarm regrows to max specialist pop of 15-16. That is 180 * 1.5 research + 30 * 12=480 that is huge! That is half a great scientist at least! Far more value than a courthouse will give us.
Culture City
T 134 Courthouse
T 135 Work all mines, Univ
T 136 all mines, Univ
T 137 Work both PH, Univ
T 138 Whip Univ Work Ocean tiles
T 139 Courthouse, work 2 Pmines
T 140 Courthouse, work 2 pmines
T 141 Courthouse, 2 mines
T 142 Whip courthouse, Anarchy
T 143 Finish courthouse
T 144 Barracks
I think a galley/caravel would be more useful here than a barracks.
Isengard
T 134 Maoi,
T 135 Maoi, No copper tile.
T 136 Maoi
T 137 add pop to coast.
T 139 Finish Maoi Start HE,
T 140 HE, no copper tile
T 141 HE
T 142 Anarchy
T 143 HE
T 144 HE
There is a chop in here somewhere, doesn't this accelerate the HE? I think we are going to want to build most of our military units here that is why I don't like a barracks in too many other cities.
Phants
T 135 LH
T 136 LH
T 137 Whip LH
T 138 Courthouse
T 139 Courthouse
T 140 Courthouse
T 141 Courthouse
T 142 Courthouse
T 143 Courthouse
T 144 Courthouse
Silver City
T 134 Build wealth
T 135 Start Univ Work 3 mines
T 136 Univ Work 3 mines
T 137 Uni
T 138 Courthouse
T 139 courthouse
T 140 Courthouse
T 141 Courthouse
T 142 Whip Courthouse, Anarchy
T 143 finish courthouse
T 144 Barracks
Fur
T 135 1st chop, granary
T 136 Whip granary, then 2nd chop
T 137 courthouse.
T 138 courthouse
T 139 courthouse
T 140 courthouse
T 141 LH
T 142 LH
T 143 LH
T 144 LH
Whip an extra chop outside the BFC will you be able to whip the lighthouse too?
Barb City Gaul
T 137 spy
T 138 Spy
T 139 Spy
T 140 spy
T 141 Whip Spy
T 142 courthouse
T 143 courthouse
T 144 courthouse
Sheep City
T 135 LH
T 136 LH
T 137 LH, work sugar
T 138 LH, Work sugar
T 139 LH, Sugar, unimp grass
T 140 Whip Lighthouse
T 141 Courthouse
T 142 courthouse
T 143 courthouse
T 144 courthouse
Research
Edu => Liberalism 0%, no 100% slider this time.
Great Spy
Search out Monte's lands.
especially the barbarian city where we suspect the wizard might be.
Galley
Missionary transport west
Workers
Stevenson
Farm by Phants, Mine iron, mine Ghill
Eiffel
Farm by Silver City and Phants
Hoover and Semiramis
Farm around marble, set up irritation farm 1W of Stone city. Workshop 1W of Washington's cows.
Worker 8
Chop jungle north of Gems, then farm it.
Goodtyear and Fritz
Workshops around Sheep City, Chop for Heroic Epic prior to civ switch
Karl
Chops around fur city
Ramamujan
Chops 1F, then roads to Gaul
Yamasake
Chops 1F, the goes to Gaul to chop/improve.
Exploration units
Continue exploration.
Spies stay out of cities to decrease risk of detection.
Spies in Asokas lands. One stay and wander, gathering intel. The other return to hub.
Espionage
Steal Compass.
Watch research for engineering, civil service, optics and drama.
A steal of optics will come. And I think we should steal drama once we have 50% discount just so we have a tech to trade for lumps of gold from the other teams.
spread taoism to cultural bridge first if successful spread to Boston. If unsuccessful in Bostion I would build another missionary somewhere so we can spread to Boston.
The reason I like putting more espionage on the north even though we might infiltrate them is because we need ~120 for the drama steal (assume we get the taoism to spread). Then we will lose vision on their research.
I like an infiltration on north since they are teching engineering for us. We won't be able to get enough espionage to steal it in a reasonable amount of time unless we either use the espionage slider for a turn or 2. Or we infiltrate.
Great People
No GS until GE born on T 145
Trades
Trade Music to Shaka for gold.
After AP built, see how much fail gold AI will have for trade.
Begging
Possibly beg Shaka if he builds his gold back up.
AI demands
Give in to north and west witches for gold (unless > 200)
I wouldn't give up gold.
, resources, nearly finished techs that are not paper, philo, or edu.
I like stealing drama so we can trade with it. especially for big lumps of gold
Do not accept stop trading demands, change religion or war demands. Do not accept favorite civic demands.
Consult Forum for trade demands.
When to play. I can play in about 6 hours from this post. I can wait until tomorrow based on what the team wants.
Also we need to be specific about great people. It is important to run as many scientists as possible in GPFarm once we are sure GPFarm will not bet Washington to the next great person. In fact you want to run the scientists in GPFarm so that a great person will be produced in Washington and GPFarm the same turn. A city founded earlier will always produce the great person in a tie. So if washington and GPFarm pass 500 gp the same turn Washington will produce the great engineer. If GPFarm produces more than 100 gp then it can produce the 600 gp great person the same turn Washington produces the Great Engineer.
Silver and Gems will also produce great scientists for us, so they want to run max scientists once they regrow a little bit. Stone City will not produce a great person for us very easily, plus its pool is contaminated. So Stone City can run a spy specialist and merchants if it doesn't have decent tiles to work.
Sheep City can take mines from Gems once Gems starts running a lot of great people.
Sheep probably want to give back the sugar to Gems once it whips its lighthouse.
Also as you continue to explore the south's and east's lands you can try to sell maps to each AI team again and probably get another 5-10 gold every few turns at least as long as you continue to explore new lands.
Check resource trades each turn too to see if you can renegotiate for more gold. I put in a few reminders about that in the real game, but nothing beats checking each turn to see if you can get another gold or 2 in resource trades per turn.
Don't give into gold demands? Take a -1 diplo penalty with the West Witches and North Witches instead of a +1 benefit?
I think if it comes up, Shulec should give up the gold, and then beg to get some of it back. A lot of begs occured between T115 and T120, and the 25 turn waiting period should be over between T140-T145.
I think if it comes up, Shulec should give up the gold, and then beg to get some of it back. A lot of begs occured between T115 and T120, and the 25 turn waiting period should be over between T140-T145.
bcool
Deity
Case by Case basis. I guess 200 gold is an acceptable loss, but 500-600 gold is a huge blow. With Oxford coming and our universities that is easily ~1200 research.
A city gift or 2 can make up for a diplo penalty... Building a settler or two is probably worth 500-600 gold but not 200 I guess.
I think we should take Shulec's idea of giving into the demand if it less than 200 gold and refusing if it is more than 200 gold. It seems reasonable.
I see not much love for the barracks even though we are charismatic and thinking about a war in 20-30 more turns. Surely if we are to rely on nationalism soon, the +2 happy will let us do one more round of drafting?
We need them started if not at the end of Shulec's turnset, then sometime during the next player's turnset. A barracks + vassalage will give us 1 promotion draftees and +1 movement-point boats
I'll vote for Shulec playing tonight. His focus on the AP and Oxford along with gold building seems the right recipe for our success.
I see not much love for the barracks even though we are charismatic and thinking about a war in 20-30 more turns. Surely if we are to rely on nationalism soon, the +2 happy will let us do one more round of drafting?
We need them started if not at the end of Shulec's turnset, then sometime during the next player's turnset. A barracks + vassalage will give us 1 promotion draftees and +1 movement-point boats
I'll vote for Shulec playing tonight. His focus on the AP and Oxford along with gold building seems the right recipe for our success.
Bcool's suggestions all seem very nice once again. Tachywaxon is going to kill me for being too agreeable and slacking on micro commenting. 
Thanks for keeping up our lately brutal pace Shulec. I know how hard it is!
Thanks for keeping up our lately brutal pace Shulec. I know how hard it is!
Does anyone have some ideas on how best to use the AP? I've only built it a few times for the hammer bonus, and have 1 religious victory ever.
I've heard of this thing called holy war, but never instigated one before.
I've heard of this thing called holy war, but never instigated one before.
bcool
Deity
Barracks after more useful buildings in the next turn set, yes.
barracks+vassalage + drafting is impossible. barracks+theocracy + drafting yes gives a promotion to drafted units.
I don't think the switch to theocracy will make sense, but maybe if it is done after most of the great people are already born...
barracks+vassalage + drafting is impossible. barracks+theocracy + drafting yes gives a promotion to drafted units.
I don't think the switch to theocracy will make sense, but maybe if it is done after most of the great people are already born...
Haha, oh ya, Nationalism then of course. The point about Theocracy makes sense too. I guess my dreams of a far moving fleet will have to wait for a second Great General, since the first is really surely needed for a Super Medic on normal speed (possibly one of those garrison warriors).
