The Great Works system needs some changes

I find the current Great Works system a pretty limited system, I mean all there really is are the guilds, archaeologists and the buildings that house the stuff with their theming bonuses. I think there's a lot more that can be added to make the acquiring of great works/artifacts.

1. Give yields to different great works
I proposed this a while ago and I still think it's a great idea - to add bonus yields to great works and artifacts. Great works of writing would give the city + 2 local city happiness, great works of music would give an additional +2 faith and great works of art would provide an additional +2 gold. Artifacts would give either science, faith, or gold or perhaps additional culture or . This would make the acquisition of great works less one dimensional and provide bonuses even for civs who don't want to become cultural superpowers, and it makes you really feel like your empire is gaining from their discoveries. Perhaps more yields could be given to great works by social policies or ideological tenets as well.

2. GIVE US MORE SPACE!
This is not so much a problem in earlier eras, but with the discovery of archaeology there doesn't seem to be enough space for civs who want to take advantage of artifacts, and with only 1 wonder and 1 building to house them it's not very realistic or fun to fill up all of your slots and having the sole option of creating landmarks, which can often yield no benefits if you send your archaeologists outside your lands - which is why I propose the addition of storage slots.

Storage slots would be available on all buildings that have at least one great work slot. While in storage the great works output nothing, and each building/wonder is limited to one storage slot. Upon discovering archaeology you will unlock the warehouse which gives an additional 2 storage slots as well.

3. Great Work Days
This is similar to the "We love the King Day" but for great works instead - each city that has at least one great work will request a different great work in its place, either from another civilization (making great work swaps even more important) or they will request a new piece from a certain era. If you fulfill this quest, the city enters a "We love New [insert great work] day" that doubles all yields of great works, including tourism, culture, science, faith, and gold. This woudn't happen to wonders that have slots, but museums, amphitheaters and opera houses would, and museums would have a new unique theming bonus as to not lose their additional tourism. This will add a more immersive system, and again even the most culturally insignificant civs would still want to have great work days.

4. More Great Works!
So that huge maps don't run out of them. Quite simple, really.

Implementing these changes will, I am sure, make the new tourism mechanic a whole lot more fun and engaging, and more beneficial than "oh, I guess I have to chose ideology x now" in the late game.

More great works are all that are needed, IMO.

TPangolin said:

More great works are all that are needed, IMO.

Click to expand...

This.

If you're running out of space for Artifacts, build more cities, and suddenly you'll have more museums to house those artifacts.

Hmmm...i suppose I should have put a none of the above option in the poll, but then again it would have to be only selectable by itself...

Apparently a lot of people only want more great works, lol.

azzaman333 said:

This.

If you're running out of space for Artifacts, build more cities, and suddenly you'll have more museums to house those artifacts.

Click to expand...

...because you can always build more cities, even if the AI has boxed you in and you can't find any additional cities? You just spawned a great writer but don't have a slot for a great work yet and you are about to advance into the next era - well you just lost out on a theming bonus.

What about going to war - should you have to gamble in the fact that you will have the right kinds and amounts of buildings so you don't destroy the great works? "oh looks like rio de janeiro had 5 great works, but your clumsy soldiers burned them all because lol we have no space for them in our museums, even though we're about to complete the Louvre."

It's unrealistic and it hurts gameplay.

I pressed in the wrong vote I want more great works not great work days.

I think #1, #2 and #4 could work. Although with regards to #1, I guess the GWoWriting we talk about here are fictional ones only, so in that regard it perhaps makes sense they don't provide .

Some time ago, I played a bit with an idea for a revamped Science victory where Great Scientists, Great Engineers and Great Merchants (Economists) could create "Great Theories" that would work a bit equivalent to GWoArt, but would give you Science instead, so I think perhaps it's ok not to mix the Science and Culture too much.

fuzzatron717 said:

I pressed in the wrong vote I want more great works not great work days.

Click to expand...

Too bad for you, I guess the only options is to stare at this thread until you do want great work days.

kaspergm said:

I think #1, #2 and #4 could work. Although with regards to #1, I guess the GWoWriting we talk about here are fictional ones only, so in that regard it perhaps makes sense they don't provide .

Some time ago, I played a bit with an idea for a revamped Science victory where Great Scientists, Great Engineers and Great Merchants (Economists) could create "Great Theories" that would work a bit equivalent to GWoArt, but would give you Science instead, so I think perhaps it's ok not to mix the Science and Culture too much.

Click to expand...

Hm I guess you are right...maybe +2 local happiness instead?
Your idea for science victory seems awesome though.

OmniPotent42 said:

...because you can always build more cities, even if the AI has boxed you in and you can't find any additional cities? You just spawned a great writer but don't have a slot for a great work yet and you are about to advance into the next era - well you just lost out on a theming bonus.

Click to expand...

I guess it's all about timing. It is true that when you research archeology, you're in a difficult spot where you have to commit to either museums or archeologists at the same time, not to mention this is about the time public schools and factories come into play as well. But with practice you should time it right. Cathedrals give you an extra slot, and you can keep tabs on how much space you have left before deciding to build another archeologist.

I think those are the only ones that actually require some planning though. I very very very rarely (read:never) have run out of space for either writers or musicians. And if you plan on building a wonder with bonuses for either, again, you should learn to time it... If you're worried about having great works from different eras and not being able to get the theming bonus, then don't pop the first one. Hold on to him until you get the second one, then you can pop them both at the same time. If i'm planning on building broadway, for example, I'll make sure I have a couple hanging around. You can always check the great people tab to see how much time you have to wait until the next one, and you can cue your techs up in a way that makes sure you'll get the next great writer/musician before you go up an era.

playied yesterday prince on normal map, got to archeology way be4 all the other civs, ran out of room fast (play as india this time, 2 cities)

OmniPotent42 said:

...because you can always build more cities, even if the AI has boxed you in and you can't find any additional cities? You just spawned a great writer but don't have a slot for a great work yet and you are about to advance into the next era - well you just lost out on a theming bonus.

Click to expand...

Then perhaps you should have planned ahead if you wanted that theming bonus!

OmniPotent42 said:

What about going to war - should you have to gamble in the fact that you will have the right kinds and amounts of buildings so you don't destroy the great works? "oh looks like rio de janeiro had 5 great works, but your clumsy soldiers burned them all because lol we have no space for them in our museums, even though we're about to complete the Louvre."

It's unrealistic and it hurts gameplay.

Click to expand...

It is a shame that they get destroyed, but it is hardly unheard of in history for artworks to be destroyed in war.

I just wish it had more of an impact on the early game. I thought the reason the changed the culture victory was because it was too passive and unengaging, well now i'm playing the smallest of minigames with myself until the modern era, and then it suddenly has an impact. What about the time before this?

I think what is needed is not more great Works, but generic Great Works (like for artifacts so they Never run out)

OmniPotent42 said:

...because you can always build more cities, even if the AI has boxed you in and you can't find any additional cities? You just spawned a great writer but don't have a slot for a great work yet and you are about to advance into the next era - well you just lost out on a theming bonus.

What about going to war - should you have to gamble in the fact that you will have the right kinds and amounts of buildings so you don't destroy the great works? "oh looks like rio de janeiro had 5 great works, but your clumsy soldiers burned them all because lol we have no space for them in our museums, even though we're about to complete the Louvre."

It's unrealistic and it hurts gameplay.

Click to expand...

It's called planning ahead. You build the required great work slots before you need them, not after. A little bit of foresight and neither of your problems are problems anymore.

It's basically the same as having a Great Engineer but no wonders are available to rush. It's the fault of the player, not the game.

My personal opinion:

1st. Yeah, more GWs would be great.

2nd. Instead of more slots, I'd say, be able of producing GWs without free slots. And then, allow to actually Trade for GWs (not only switch to mix and match), so, you can go with the other civ who doesn't have so many GWs and trade them as resources (but not with turns, just a one time sell) for nice ammounts of gold, or other options... "I give you my rembrandt, but you must vote for me! "

I thinks some religious pantheons or beliefs or reformation beliefs should give some "faith boost" to great works: Religious Art, Choral Music or even the decrepit Liturgical Drama could be much more interesting choices this way - and have their names actually in concordance with their abilities.

Swap great works give somo bonus or are useless?

azzaman333 said:

It's called planning ahead. You build the required great work slots before you need them, not after. A little bit of foresight and neither of your problems are problems anymore.

It's basically the same as having a Great Engineer but no wonders are available to rush. It's the fault of the player, not the game.

Click to expand...

So let's see...1 slot from the amphitheater, 1 from national epic, and if you somehow get a barracks in all of your cities then you have 1 from heroic epic. That's only 3 in the capital, and it only scales linearly with how many additional cities you have for the amphitheater. I don't see how this is enough for someone who wants to prioritize either spawning or capturing great works of writing. Shoukdn't that play style be viable?

OmniPotent42 said:

So let's see...1 slot from the amphitheater, 1 from national epic, and if you somehow get a barracks in all of your cities then you have 1 from heroic epic. That's only 3 in the capital, and it only scales linearly with how many additional cities you have for the amphitheater. I don't see how this is enough for someone who wants to prioritize either spawning or capturing great works of writing. Shoukdn't that play style be viable?

Click to expand...

If you were worried about the theming bonus for same era, same civ, its only applicable to the Globe Theatre. The Globe comes with a great writer so really the only planning you needed was to spawn a great writer in the same era you completed the Globe... shouldn't be too hard!