What's the deal with babylon and korean AIs?

A

Amarr Emperor

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 28, 2013
Messages
64
After 2 diety games of the babylon AI being last in science, I suspected it wasn't a coincidence. I then tested it by starting a new game with korean and babylon AI.

The result may be for only this game, but i highly suspect it's a general trend.

The korean AI leads the avg sci by 10-15%, while the babylon AI is dead last

what's the deal...
 
The AI never sets up the Academies for some reason, which means Neby only gets around 8 turns worth of science ultra early game before he has any science buildings in - which means the ammount he gets is very, very negligible.

It sucks, but we can't do anything about it.

Korea on the other hand doesn't really "need" to set an Academy up to benefit from their UA. They get pretty much as much science as Babylon for the research agreement with every building built in capital while the AI actually works Specialists from time to time, so Korea benefits from its' OP bonuses more.
 
In addition, Korea has a high science flavor; Babylon has a medium science flavor. Flavors can be modded in XML.
 
Which is odd. You think a general rule like "create an academy until public schools" would be easy enough to code.
 
I experinced the same thing. Babylon is always very pathetic in my games. He is behind has about 3 cities and is usually weak. Dont know why. Also it seems he doesnt settle his writing GS.

It's strange cause Iroquois are doing really well and are considered bottom tier. I would rate them 1st place as the strongest AI in my games.

Yeah they should fix Babylon.
 
Santa Maria said:
I experinced the same thing. Babylon is always very pathetic in my games. He is behind has about 3 cities and is usually weak. Dont know why. Also it seems he doesnt settle his writing GS.

It's strange cause Iroquois are doing really well and are considered bottom tier. I would rate them 1st place as the strongest AI in my games.

Yeah they should fix Babylon.
Click to expand...

That's a case of AI vs. a human player, the AI is terrible with Babylon and somehow amazingly good with Iroquois, my theory is on higher difficulty levels the AI does a lot better with expansionist Civs with low war tendencies because it utilizes the difficulty bonuses a AI gets better, so a Civ like Babylon is at a disadvantage.

AI Babylon = One of the worst Civs.
Human Babylon = One of the best Civs.

Human Iroquois = Mid to lower tier Civ.
AI Iroquois = One of the best Civs.
 
I had a game where Babylon was good in a vanilla game, but that was mostly through warmongering since that was all that was needed to succeed.

If Babylon doesn't prioritize science, what do they prioritize? Food? I guess that makes some sense. However, at a minimum, they should settle that first Great Scientist. Maybe make it so, if the AI gets a Great Scientist before Turn N, they will build an Academy. If they don't, they won't. That won't even dramatically change how the AI plays, but it'll help Babylon (perhaps Civs that get one through Liberty will also settle it, but that's probably a good thing too).
 
bbbt said:
Which is odd. You think a general rule like "create an academy until public schools" would be easy enough to code.
Click to expand...

From scratch; yes. But that doesn't fit at all in the flavor driven system.

But I suspect the real problem is the AI doesn't under that an academy's value will increase over time; and is simply using what is currently produces.
 
Louis XXIV said:
If Babylon doesn't prioritize science, what do they prioritize? Food? I guess that makes some sense.
Click to expand...

Babylon prioritizes City Defense Structures (8), Ranged Units (8), which are both directly competing against their listed 8 for Science; effectively reducing it when you combine this to the Bowmen & Walls of Babylon flavors (It will normally prefer to build both its UU & UB over a library)

Tile Improvement (7) is complimentary to Science, but Wonders (7) is also competing against science in most cases, as to growth; that's only listed as a 6, but that tile improvement one makes it practice higher; on most maps that tile improvement flavor is a better predictor of food.

Korea doesn't have either of its UU so early, which results in it building Libraries everywhere.
Korea's science flavor is also 8, but in addition it's great people flavor is also 8. It's ranged unit is only 7. Basically there's nothing competing against their science flavor.
 
Oddly enough, both Babylon and Korea STILL like to propose arts funding, and will be very angry if you suggest sciences instead. And then about half way through the industrial era they'll wonder why they're about 15 techs behind everyone else :crazyeye:
 
Jampine said:
Oddly enough, both Babylon and Korea STILL like to propose arts funding, and will be very angry if you suggest sciences instead. And then about half way through the industrial era they'll wonder why they're about 15 techs behind everyone else :crazyeye:
Click to expand...

In my games (standard map): It's usually 6 AIs wanting cultural funding and 1 wanting science funding. Don't bother in early game proposing science funding; not only would you make almost every AI mad; you won't have the votes until you directly control close to half the votes.

I do note that given that the AI instantly bulbs Scientists even in early game; even science AIs are better off with artist funding. (It will use guild great people properly)
 
Both korea and babylon are tall AIs. Wide AIs will come out ahead in every aspect. If they are protective of city states, they are even better.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
 
If find an AI Korea particularly weak. His problem, the AI always seems to focus on science. Not the way the human player would do it by creating academies and growing cities, but by putting specialists in his unis etc even when building world projects and not diverting from this path. To his cost.....
 
If korea survives the early stages of the game without being attacked by the caesars and shakas of the world then I find that at the end of the game they often turn into one of the major powers. I suspect this is due to their naval focus allowing them to capture coast cities with great ease when combined with their UU, and reaching that point before most of the other AI
 
I've also noticed that Babylon AI tends to be very reclusive. Nebby rarely settles more than 2 or 3 cities in my game, rarely engages in diplomatic deals, and rarely declares war. However, other AIs do pick on him a lot, so he usually gets rolled over on by another AI by Medieval.

I think Babylon may have a very high Wonder flavor, but he never gets enough science and production to be competitive for wonders. So he spends all his time early in the game trying to build Great Library, Oracle, or Mausoleum instead of workers, settlers, and military, then he never finishes them. I've noticed that Aztecs will do that a lot too. Monty will sit on ONE city and never found another. He'll spam Jaguars early and use them to try to conquer while his capital does nothing but build wonders. If he captures cities and/or finishes the wonders, he's successful; if not, then he gets crushed by other AIs, or stagnates with just one city for the rest of the game.
 
One of the fundamental weaknesses of the AI is that it can't reload or start a new game when things go badly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

AcaMetis
Nobles' Club 337: Hammurabi of Babylon
Replies
12
Views
2K
chinemol
chinemol
Legen
  • Locked
(4-WD) Walls of Babylon's buff
Replies
14
Views
996
Recursive
Recursive
B
Pat on the back please, and goodbye Civilization.
Replies
4
Views
2K
Iconian
Iconian
L. Vern
My 4.5 Playtest Report + Feedback
Replies
5
Views
746
azum4roll
A
T
AI Jumbled Rumble : another set of AI Survivor Alternate Histories, with a twist
2 3
Replies
56
Views
5K
Keler
Keler
Top Bottom