DLCs after Brave New World

mitsho · Mar 18, 2013

Even with the amount of civs we have right now, you start running into the problem of devaluating the first and big name civs. To put it bluntly, I don't feel putting Rome on the same stage as Brasil is right or "too many small civs make me not meet the "big ones" often enough in my games.

So I do feel there should be an upper limit to the amount of civs we have in game. After adding 9 civs for Brave New World however, I feel there is room for a few more, under the condition that they can give a meaningful, distinct and unique game play set up to the civ!

SuperWaffle247 · Mar 18, 2013

I'm skeptical that there'll be another wave of DLC. I'd love it though. If they add 7 for 50 total, that sounds good to me - I'd probably find 7 to download if they don't. I'm not too worried about boring UAs and styles; if any of the current Civs are boring or non-unique it's the ones in the base game. Hopefullly BNW addresses some of those.

Menzies · Mar 19, 2013

AbsintheRed said:
True, it's rather funny this way
I don't really care though, I was mostly against DLCs because I was afraid there will be no expansions because of them
With 2 full expansions, I don't mind a couple further DLCs at all

I remember us getting into a debate about whether there would be expansions back when the first DLC was being released. I was convinced at the time that they were always going to make Expansions, probably 2 as before, but you were adamant that DLC was going to replace expansions and ruin the series and everything you loved.

Ah, good times. I think we're both glad that the Expansions have come though.

One thing to look out for with this expansion is a "tenth" civilization as a special DLC for preorder. If that happens, then there will almost certainly be another run of DLC.

Pouakai · Mar 19, 2013

Yeah, in my books pre-order civs = DLC run. Also, if they include the Inca then I'd like to see compensation in some way, shape or form for those who bought the DLC (Even if it's something as simple as a bonus wonder or something)

Bechhold · Mar 19, 2013

DOn't understand why iraxis just won't keep up with DLC's and now and then another expansion. Make just as much money as an entirely new game.

bite · Mar 19, 2013

Pouakai said:
Yeah, in my books pre-order civs = DLC run. Also, if they include the Inca then I'd like to see compensation in some way, shape or form for those who bought the DLC (Even if it's something as simple as a bonus wonder or something)

Considering they just released a version of Civ with all the DLC and G&K i don't think the Incas will be one of the 9

Menzies · Mar 19, 2013

Pouakai said:
Yeah, in my books pre-order civs = DLC run. Also, if they include the Inca then I'd like to see compensation in some way, shape or form for those who bought the DLC (Even if it's something as simple as a bonus wonder or something)

I don't get this whole idea about compensation if they release some older Civilizations or other content with the expansion. Why should they? We chose to buy it when it came out, and we got exactly what we paid for. Some people are going to get it cheaper or in a bundle in the future, but we get it now when we paid for it. Are we also going to be demanding compensation if they make it freeware one day?

If there is a DLC run, it would almost certainly be the end of the Civ V release cycle, as DLC would mean that they aren't making a third expansion, but we'll see what happens now. Maybe there won't be a pre order DLC though (later released as a normal DLC) as I get the impression that it was done with Vanilla (as well as with the Mongols) to get people to notice that there was DLC and what it was.

Pouakai · Mar 19, 2013

I wouldn't expect them as one of the nine, but rather as a bonus 10th civ - like Spain was. Although that is unlikely given Spain was for a scenario and there aren't any New World scenarios that would feature the Incans (Unless we've got the wrong civil war)

Menzies · Mar 19, 2013

bite said:
Considering they just released a version of Civ with all the DLC and G&K i don't think the Incas will be one of the 9

They said new Civilizations as well, it certainly won't be one of the 9, the question that some have is whether they'd be released as a tenth like with Spain. I get the impression some think they'd do this as Spain (the other half of that particular DLC) was part of Gods & Kings in that way, but from a business perspective I don't see why they'd make the DLC effectively redundant like that, there's absolutely no need for it.

Camikaze · Mar 19, 2013

If there's any DLC after the expansion, I doubt it would be at all substantive. Making a new civ wouldn't require nearly as much developer time as a scenario or something (in that it's largely art), so I guess it's possible that there'd be another civ or two come out, but I dunno if there'd be enough popular civs left to generate enough interest and revenue; I dunno if there'd be any civ that would be worth even minimal resources, that could otherwise be spent on developing Civ6 or another Firaxis (or 2K) project.

Menzies · Mar 19, 2013

Seriously though, off the top of my head, I could easily think of enough to get to 50 (9 in the Expansion, 7 as DLC):

35. Poland
36. Assyria
37. Portugal
38. Zulu
39. Majapahit
40. Khmer
41. Kongo
42. Brazil
43. Vietnam
44. Mali
45. Sumeria
46. Hitties
47. The Moors
48. A second Native North American Civilization
49 & 50. Two modern nations, i.e. Italy, Belgium, Australia, Canada, which would be quite marketable

That's before going into some of the controversial options that they likely couldn't do.

bite · Mar 19, 2013

just a heads up you got Khmer in there twice

Menzies · Mar 19, 2013

bite said:
just a heads up you got Khmer in there twice

Fixed.

Pouakai · Mar 19, 2013

There's plenty of civilizations they could add in to fit various play styles and new features as well, beyond what you've mentioned - Zimbabwe, Swahili, Tiwanaku / Chachapoya, various Meso-american Civilizations (eg. Teotihuacan, Olmec, Zapotec), Gran Colombia (Not sure if that's covered under Modern), Nabataeans and so on. While they're probably less likely to be included, point is lack of civilizations won't be the reason they stop DLC. If they don't do DLC, it'll likely be because of disappointing sales figures or demands from higher-up to begin work on VI.

AbsintheRed · Mar 19, 2013

Menzies said:
I remember us getting into a debate about whether there would be expansions back when the first DLC was being released. I was convinced at the time that they were always going to make Expansions, probably 2 as before, but you were adamant that DLC was going to replace expansions and ruin the series and everything you loved.

Ah, good times. I think we're both glad that the Expansions have come though.

I think that wasn't me, at least I don't remember it at all
Anyway, it could have been me, as I was very much afraid that DLCs mean there won't be any expansions

Yeah, without the expansions Civ V would have stayed the weakest of the Civ series
With them, Firaxis adds reasonable amount of features and content to this game too

Some of the initial design mistakes will never go away
But with GnK and BNW there are many fun and well-developed mechanics introduced as well

One thing to look out for with this expansion is a "tenth" civilization as a special DLC for preorder. If that happens, then there will almost certainly be another run of DLC.

Agreed
But even if there won't be a preorder DLC, I'm pretty sure that there will be a second DLC run

AbsintheRed · Mar 19, 2013

Menzies said:
Seriously though, off the top of my head, I could easily think of enough to get to 50 (9 in the Expansion, 7 as DLC):

35. Poland
36. Assyria
37. Portugal
38. Zulu
39. Majapahit
40. Khmer
41. Kongo
42. Brazil
43. Vietnam
44. Mali
45. Sumeria
46. Hitties
47. The Moors
48. A second Native North American Civilization
49 & 50. Two modern nations, i.e. Italy, Belgium, Australia, Canada, which would be quite marketable

That's before going into some of the controversial options that they likely couldn't do.

You still missed a Hungary and Phoenicia from the top civs
Also instead of modern nations I think they might release Tibet as a DLC, it's not that controversial that way
A great list othewise
I could even imagine them adding Armenia or Nubia, they would also be very unique and worthy additions historically, and they are probably popular enough (and well-known)
So yeah, somewhere between 50-55 civs after a second DLC run sound very plausible to me too

marioflag · Mar 19, 2013

In my opinion there will not be further civilizations dlc packs because 43 civs are really a lot, so the market for these new releases would be restricted to a niche of civfanatics.

There is enough room though to release cosmetic DLC packs, or natural wonders pack, or world wonders.

Camikaze · Mar 19, 2013

There's plenty available, but I guess my point is more, how big is the market for a Sumeria DLC without a scenario, for instance? Might be worth the art work (working on the assumption that the art department pays for itself), but there's a certain amount of balancing required for each new civ, requiring the diversion of resources from something that could be more profitable, like XCOM DLC or Civ6.

AbsintheRed · Mar 19, 2013

marioflag said:
In my opinion there will not be further civilizations dlc packs because 43 civs are really a lot, so the market for these new releases would be restricted to a niche of civfanatics.

There is enough room though to release cosmetic DLC packs, or natural wonders pack, or world wonders.

World or natural wonder packs are very welcomed of course
IMO we can expect some civ DLCs as well
There are enough great civs missing (just check the last few posts or the opening post), and IMO it's one of the most profitable things Firaxis can do

Camikaze said:
There's plenty available, but I guess my point is more, how big is the market for a Sumeria DLC without a scenario, for instance? Might be worth the art work (working on the assumption that the art department pays for itself), but there's a certain amount of balancing required for each new civ, requiring the diversion of resources from something that could be more profitable, like XCOM DLC or Civ6.

Sumer is an interesting case, along with the Hittites, as they already appeared in a scenario
But I don't think it's a problem to create another scenario which they appear in, with all the features from the 2 expansions added in this new scenario
Even if not, I'm positive Sumer is marketable enough on his own

Imalich · Mar 19, 2013

mitsho said:
Even with the amount of civs we have right now, you start running into the problem of devaluating the first and big name civs. To put it bluntly, I don't feel putting Rome on the same stage as Brasil is right or "too many small civs make me not meet the "big ones" often enough in my games.

So I do feel there should be an upper limit to the amount of civs we have in game. After adding 9 civs for Brave New World however, I feel there is room for a few more, under the condition that they can give a meaningful, distinct and unique game play set up to the civ!

I really just wished they would add an option of removing an unliked civilization from the random generator. There, problem-solved.

DLCs after Brave New World

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