What do you think of my diplo strategy?

KevinLandwaster

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 30, 2015
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Goal: Diplomatic victory - Emperor difficuluty - continents map - "large" map (10 civs)

Background info: I've never gone for a diplomatic victory, but I've gotten a domination victory on emperor difficulty - Earth map. I got all the victory types on prince difficulty (accept for diplo of course).

I get the impression that diplomatic is a pretty easy victory, but I don't want to go into it without a plan. As far as I know, the way to win is to have all or most of the city-states allied with you. The most obvious way to do this is to have a lot of money to "gift" them. Obviously, you want to max out the patronage tree ASAP. I would think the best way to make money is to expand the empire and build a big network of money-producing cities. Do I need to have all the civs friendly with me, or is it enough to get all the city states on my side? What else am I missing in my plan?
 
Who are you going to play as?
I usually do not go down the patronage tree even for diplomatic victories. I do open it though as that is useful. Tradition is such a good tree and then you pretty much need to go rationalism as soon as possible no matter what victory condition you are going for. Commerce may be more helpful than Patronage. Trading posts are good and selling everything you do not need
You will need a really good economy and try to get your spies trained up. If you can get the money wonder (Machu Pichu) that is good. Spreading your religion if you can is also very helpful.

To win you will need to have most city states allied with you. You probably can only win later when you get more votes from the city states

And if you are lucky Greece will not be in your game :)
 
Who are you going to play as?
I usually do not go down the patronage tree even for diplomatic victories. I do open it though as that is useful. Tradition is such a good tree and then you pretty much need to go rationalism as soon as possible no matter what victory condition you are going for. Commerce may be more helpful than Patronage. Trading posts are good and selling everything you do not need
You will need a really good economy and try to get your spies trained up. If you can get the money wonder (Machu Pichu) that is good. Spreading your religion if you can is also very helpful.

To win you will need to have most city states allied with you. You probably can only win later when you get more votes from the city states

And if you are lucky Greece will not be in your game :)

I didn't consider the importance of the tech tree - but I guess you can't have a strong empire if you're behind in tech. I think the question I'm trying to resolve is: What kind of empire am I trying to build? Is it best to try and conquer most of the world, or should I have a small civilization that speeds through the culture and tech trees? When I did science and culture victories, I would have just my capitol and maybe 2 other cities. I'm thinking for diplomatic victory I want a big powerful empire to generate more cash flow and maybe destroy opponents that are in my way.
 
Patronage is a nice tree, the opener, +20 resting influence, and +25% increase in gold influence are all nice. Once you have those, if you're doing well, the +25% science and extra happiness from gifted luxuries is really good too. Finishing patronage is optional, and I'd do it a bit later on in the game after some ideology policies.

If you can get a lot of faith or a lot of culture early game (it could just mean allying some culture and faith giving city states), then you can gain a lot of allies when they give culture or faith quests. You don't need a big military, but having a small enough one to go after far away barbarian camps is useful. Also be mindful of what luxuries or strategic resources they ask you to get. Another tip: If you trade away all your horses, then a city state might ask you to connect horses to your empire, which you will get when your trade ends.

Just be mindful of quests, and try to get as many allies as possible. You have a long time to do it. Use the benefits city states provide you to make your empire better. If you try for it and build a strong empire, you should be able to get this victory without too much issue.
 
You don't really need to have the AI be friendly with you. I believe if you can ally all of the CS and build FP, you will have enough votes.

If you can resurrect an AI who was wiped out by someone else, you can get that AI to vote for you.

For social policies, rationalism would be my first priority, then whatever mix of patronage and commerce helps you the most. The patronage policy that moves the resting point up to 20 is handy.

In my experience, diplo victories are easiest with a 4 city tradition approach. If you build too many cities, the AI will be mad and DOW you. If you stay peaceful you can tech more quickly and focus more on developing your economy.
 
I play at the same level + map size, but with a maximum of 15 city-states.
Tradition + most policies in Rationalism is a must have, because with each new era your votes will become more valuable.
From my experience you'll need almost every vote you can get to win diplomatic, unless you control the Forbidden Palace and become Secretary General asap.
 
I didn't consider the importance of the tech tree - but I guess you can't have a strong empire if you're behind in tech. I think the question I'm trying to resolve is: What kind of empire am I trying to build? Is it best to try and conquer most of the world, or should I have a small civilization that speeds through the culture and tech trees? When I did science and culture victories, I would have just my capitol and maybe 2 other cities. I'm thinking for diplomatic victory I want a big powerful empire to generate more cash flow and maybe destroy opponents that are in my way.

What kind of empire - that is a good question. Certainly you do not want to build a conquering empire. Sure if you conquer all or most of the other states a diplomatic victory become easier. But maybe that is more like a hybrid victory? I find it useful to be friendly with the nabours - to avoid keeping too much military and to have someone who will buy up all the stuff I want to sell. They will often buy stuff they do not need - like horses and iron
If Greece or Venice and Siam are in the game - conquering them to get rid of the competition for city states may be necessary. Or if your nextdoor nabour builds the forbidden palace - maybe that would be tempting to take?

I don't think you need that many cities. You need to make sure you have cities that do not require too long roads. Probably if you after having built the National College still have room for some good cities - (that can grow, have luxuries, jungle or something other - you can go for those.) On higher levels I can rarely get more than six cities even if I try to expand. You can still have a good economy with that. So a medium size empire - emphasizing science and gold?????

And yes as others have said getting the Forbidden Palace is nice - just a bit hard as many civs seems to try to get it and I often lose out.
 
There are 2 ways to play a fast diplo game. Either you plan to war and eliminate ALL but 2 AI civs to trigger a quick atomic era (miniumum era at which you can get WL votes). Otherwise you will need to really push science to get to information era and hopefully also get globalization for the extra votes for diplomats. The first way is easier for any difficulties below deity for me.

The problem with warring is also the difficulty of protecting CS on the other continent from invasion until you have a sizable navy. Remember once CS are conquered by others, the number of votes decreases and might make diplo victory impossible to achieve without additional votes in the form of (FP, world ideology, world religion, globalization). You will have to liberate them to gain their vote back.

Also I'm not sure if it is even possible to win on the first vote on large with only getting all CS and nothing else that increases vote. For example it is impossible on standard size, you need at least 2 extra votes from the sources I wrote above.

If you can't build FP, it's sufficient to conquer it.

For SP, I don't suggest finishing patronage since other trees such as rationalism/commerce are much better. All you need from patronage is the opener, and it's also the strongest policy. It also allows you to build FP but you don't need it as it can be conquered.
 
If you get the globalization tech that gives you an extra vote for every spy as diplomat in foreign capital it can be much easier.
 
If you get the freedom tenet that gives you and extra vote for every spy as diplomat in foreign capital it can be much easier.

It's not in freedom, it isn't even a policy. It is a tech called globalization almost at the end of the tech tree. All 3 ideology can be used in some ways for a good diplo victory if you know how.
 
I find that freedom-arsenal or autocrat-gunboat make it effortless. Barring that, timing the international games to pass on the last session before the first world leader cycle comes up and hitting silver is a great help. Tbh commerce is way better than patronage because you can use gold for other things earlier and save for buying allies later. No need to maintain CS alliances all game, just need them for the vote.
 
As far as I know, the way to win is to have all or most of the city-states allied with you.
That is pretty much the only way to win, especially before Globalization.

The most obvious way to do this is to have a lot of money to "gift" them.
Yes. The other is third tier tenets in Freedom and Autocracy which makes Diplo VC easy

Obviously, you want to max out the patronage tree ASAP.
No, ironically enough, only two picks there are useful directly for getting CS allies.

I would think the best way to make money is to expand the empire and build a big network of money-producing cities.
Except that money is just about as good for any VC pursuit. So I think you should relax about that.

Do I need to have all the civs friendly with me, or is it enough to get all the city states on my side?
You only need the city states, but they are much easier to keep around (and to use tenet mechanics) if you are not at war.

What else am I missing in my plan?
Recalling a civ to life is four votes, so that can be quite significant toward the count.

I didn't consider the importance of the tech tree - but I guess you can't have a strong empire if you're behind in tech.
Unlocking globalization is the typical way to win, so yes. But no, because Diplo VC can be achieved when being way, way behind in tech. The WL can be triggered by an AI. All you need is all the CS as allies, and if Greece is not in the game, that is not hard.

Is it best to try and conquer most of the world, or should I have a small civilization that speeds through the culture and tech trees?
It is not important to unlock a bunch of social policies. Hitting Globalization makes things easier, but that does not have to be particularly fast.

When I did science and culture victories, I would have just my capitol and maybe 2 other cities.
Diplo VC can be played exactly the same way. Four cities total to get the most out of Tradition.

I'm thinking for diplomatic victory I want a big powerful empire to generate more cash flow and maybe destroy opponents that are in my way.
That sounds more like a Dom VC or a CV where you win not by reaching Internet, but by taking all the good wonders by force. You are wanting Diplo VC to be more satisfying than the game mechanic really provide for.
 
I will take the advice to heart about the rationalism and commerce trees (I always max out Tradition anyway, so I have done that already in this game) Lots of good tips from you guys, by the way (you are the fanatics, so I would expect no less).

Actually, I'm not into warmongering. I prefer to win by being ahead in science, which is how I won my domination victories. I just focused on taking the capitols and wiped out the military units of the two warmongering empires.

As far as people cautioning me about Greece, well, I chose to be Greece (This is madness, you say?.........THIS....IS.....SPARTA!!!) Also, by about turn 150 or so I got the forbidden palace. I still only have three cities right now. I don't like to expand until I have all the national wonders. It will be interesting to see how much gold per turn I can generate with just a few cities.

I think I will try to keep a small empire, and if anyone messes with my city state buddies I can liberate them with some jet fighters and paratroopers/x-com.
 
As far as people cautioning me about Greece, well, I chose to be Greece
Really, that is the best way to be sure Greece will not mess up your plans!

I still only have three cities right now. I don't like to expand until I have all the national wonders.
That is an easy trap to fall into. I am a sucker for the NW too. But then you will never expand! NIA is on the table by the time you finish Hermitage. NVC is close by the time you have NIA. By the time you have Hermitage (let alone NIA and NVC), a fourth is pointless.

So I think you should force yourself to plant that fourth as soon as NC is done. With the free monument, you can immediate keep working on NW. With the free aqueduct and one or two TRs, it will catch up to your other expos very quickly, and not be delaying your NW at all. So all the gold/culture/science it generates is gravy.
 
Freedom or Order are the best tree for this, since with Order you can get science from factories for a faster bulb to Globalization and Freedom give you "Arsenal of Democracy" Which allows you to buy cheap landsknechts and get 20 influence every 3 turns for selling them. Its a second tier policy in freedom, and the second best after Universal Suffrage which halves specialist happiness consumption. This, combined with Treaty Org, makes Freedom the best tree for sniping city states by far.
 
Another tip: If you trade away all your horses, then a city state might ask you to connect horses to your empire, which you will get when your trade ends.

Regarding this, it's also useful to trade away your last luxury, if an AI has 2 or more of something you don't. Even better if the luxury you get is already a CS quest.
 
Generally i prefer to build more cities.
More cities means more faith and culture to win some of those CS quests.
Its not essential though but it helps.
You can also play a religious game, focus on tithes, for gold and the reformation belief that gives you extra gold for CS gifts.

Greece is easy though....
If you take the Patronage Opener and convert CSs to your religion then you lose no influence over CSs each turn.
So you really dont need the +20 resting influence policy in Patronage. Its a waste for Greece.
 
I won by a huge landslide. In the first session to determine the world leader I had 43 delegates :rockon: I'm a little disappointed, playing on Emperor for my first diplo VC that it was so easy.

One thing I found out, for me at least, is the commerce policies were not useful. I was raking in about 450 gpt without any help from the commerce policies. I ended up getting all the patronage policies after I was done with tradition, rationalism and freedom. I didn't spend much on city-state gifts, getting most of my influence from quests. I had about 30,000 gold in reserve when I won.

I only played with 4 cities until, near the end, Spain handed over a city when begging for a peace treaty. She was getting hammered by all the other civs after she conquered two city states (which I then liberated of course). Another funny thing is, I was getting so many military units gifted to me that I started giving them away. I had enough to do a domination VC and I never once produced or bought a unit.
 
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