World Wonders – Suggestions / Requests

You know, Disney World would be a pretty good wonder, too Happiness & economic benefits.

I would rather have it as a corporation producing musicals, movies & singles (we need something to transform into those resources--maybe one artist specialist to get each resource?).


And for another wonder suggestion: Temple Expiatorie de la Sagrada Familia (Expiatory temple of the Holy Family)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagrada_Família

As for the pic:



Why to include it?

- Still in construction, is already the tallest catholic cathedral built so far (170 m = 558' tall)
- Intended to be "the last great sanctuary of Christendom"--its architect, Antoni Gaudí, intended it to aid in restoring the faith of the Christians, mainly in Spain.

Requirements (stated in Civ IV terms):

- Steel, Industrialism, Theology (aesthetics is an indirect requisite of theology, as it needs literature to be researched)
- Must be built in a city with a religion (perhaps the AP religion?)

Effects (single official religion):

- +2 from temple, cathedral civ-wide
- +1 from temple civ-wide
- +2 from cathedral, civ-wide

Effects (free religion):

- +1 from temple, cathedral civ-wide
- +1 from temple civ-wide (cathedrals excluded to avoid overpoweredness)

Building itself:

- +12 (remember it's a late industrial/early modern wonder)
- +2 for artist
- +1 free priest (yes, this is similar to the Temple of Artemis)

Impaler[WrG];9088355 said:

Actually more people in America are probably familiar with THIS castle in Anaheim, California, which is said to be inspired by Neuschwanstein Castle.



In any event people are familiar with castles and Neuschwanstein Castle is widely considered to be the most picturesque one in all of Europe so it makes a good wonder on the grounds of cultural diversity and visual uniqueness. It's very flexible on game-play effect too, being a castle an obvious defensive military effect could work, while the fact it was more a piece of art and a vacation spot means a culture or happiness effect would also work.

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Actually that Castle could make a city take significantly longer to take

Niagra could host a second Hoover Dam wonder (only there though)

Disneyland could be a modern Globe Theater, removing the Happy Cap plus some gold bonus

Balinese Terraces could provide 1 food on each hill farm

Hadrian's Wall, increased commerce and reduces barbarians attacking (can't haul their loot back so why attack?)

I know that my suggestions would fit in a British Isles mod, but Big Ben/HoP are actual, real wonders and in my opinion they deserve a place in Civ.

The Golden Gate Bridge!

+ 1 , + 1 : on every sea tile

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsukiji_fish_market

I would rather use that bonus for the Tsukiji Fish Market.

I never really liked the Tsukiji Fish Market, while it is unique and has an interesting flavor (only seafood based wonder) its just not very visually impressive or familiar to most people. A better Japanese wonder could be Himeji Castle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himeji_Castle

Can you have too much of a good thing, I beleive in the case of wonders yes. For that reason I'm against having too many, also against the whole national wonders thing as well (just take away the feeling of building a wonder).

Wonders should occupy different times and spaces, ofcourse it's difficult to do that with the whole euro-centric thing going on. Taken rigidly that would mean say, 2 (since there was 5 spaces in civ 4) wonders per "space" (continent) per "time" (era), but we have to be flexible otherwise you may loose some of the iconic ones. Civ 4 has five real "spaces" - Europe, Middle-East, South America, Greco-Roman and Asian. Greco-Roman to me just seems to be Europe at a different time period though...

Just to illustrate how difficult it is to limit the amount of wonders while still represent everywhere...
Ancient era
Europe
- Stonehenge (Early Ancient era)
- Colesseum (Late Ancient era)
- Parthenon/Acropolis (mid Ancient era)
East Asia
- Terra Cotta Army (late)
- Sanchi (mid) (Mahabodhi Temple also a possibility, but it would occupy the same "space" as the Kashi Vishwanath Temple later on)
Middle-East
- Pyramids (early)
- Hanging Gardens (mid) (I know there's no Babylon, but for me its the most important wonder in that space at that time. Wouldn't mind seeing it build by a city-state)
South American
- None

Now I've left out many of the icon wonders in that list (The Oracle (and yes I know confirmed, example list), Colossus (and yes I know confirmed, example list), Great Lighthouse have always been wonders) to get the space spread for that time period. Despite trying to get the spread I didn't get any South American wonders (I feel that Chichen Itza would slot in as an early medieval wonder) even though you could argue that say, Chichen Itza would become buildable with an Ancient era technology (I would then argue that a civic path would be required to unlock it, since the technology arguement is present for most of the South American wonders)

So yea, I'm kinda hoping there isn't a mass of wonders. Have a strange feeling we might end up with civ 4 style a ton of wonders at the start though...

I've always though it would be nice if their were randomly available wonders, say for example in each spot on the tech tree ware a wonder would be their is instead a group of 2-3 wonders all time-period appropriate for the tech but with different effects. At game start one wonder is chosen and only it can be built. Of course the player can see which wonder is available on the tech tree as soon as the game starts and plan appropriately.

This should work because getting a wonder is always 'gravy' and never a core part of the game. It would also help break up all these tech-wonder bee-lines that Civ4 has. 90% of players rush strait to the Oracle and many quit if they don't get it. This would really break up all that and make people think on their feet a bit more with regard to the wonders while allowing us to have way more variety and diversity in wonders without choking the game or tech tree with a wonder on every single tech. In a way it would even make a wonder more 'wondrous' because it would be a bit rarer to see each one.

P.S. Here are some more good ones I salvaged from an old thread

Empire State Building
Bagan Temples of Burma
Potala Palace at Lhasa, Tibet
St. Peter's Basilica/Vatican
Borobudur stupa in Indonesia
Alhambra fortess in Spain
Louvre Museum
Temple of the Emerald Buddha in Thailand
Meenakshi Temple in Madurai India
Golden Pavillion, Japan
Abu Simbel, Egypt
Mont-St-Michel, France
Topkapi Palace, Istambul
Square of Marrakesh
Porcelain Tower of Nanjing
Great Zimbabwa
Nazka Lines
Temple of the Sun and Moon, Mexico
The White House
The CN Tower, Canada
The Springfield Armory
The Terracotta Army
The Washington Monument
Big Ben

or maybe scale able to most number of civs ingame?

What about the Sphinx? It's getting no respect around here. I'd also back the Nazca Lines and Macchu Picchu. The idea for Civ-specific wonders is going to far for me, but I do like the idea that if civs build their own wonder, they get bonuses for it. Like the Mayans get a bonus for building Chichen Itza, and the Egyptians get a bonus for the Pyramids. It'd be a great aspect to the game.

Buddhafish said:

What about the Sphinx? It's getting no respect around here. I'd also back the Nazca Lines and Macchu Picchu. The idea for Civ-specific wonders is going to far for me, but I do like the idea that if civs build their own wonder, they get bonuses for it. Like the Mayans get a bonus for building Chichen Itza, and the Egyptians get a bonus for the Pyramids. It'd be a great aspect to the game.

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Pretty much what he said. I'm thinking along the lines of a happiness or culture bonus for building your civ's historical wonder. That might be a balancing problem, but apparently not all civs are created equally in V.

I'd like to see a couple natural wonders on each continent. Special graphics that would illustrate a tile or more, a free explorer for discovering the wonder, a happiness or cultural bonus, and some commerce. They could be specific famous geographical entities, or the could simply be Great Reef, Great Rock, Great Peak, Great Volcano, Great Cave, Great Gorge, Great Waterfall, Great Geyserfield, Great Fijord, Great Crater,
Great Lake, Great Abyss( could be in the ocean, or a low point such as Death Valley or the Dead Sea.).

I'm going to have to give a big thumbs down on civ-specific wonders, I don't even like national wonders. Even these watered-down version in which a civ gets a production bonus for certain wonders or some 'prize' if they build 'their' wonder are bad ideas.

Historical accuracy is not what civilization is about, when they had those CivRev advertisements with things like "Ware were you when the Mayans built the Eiffel Tower?" are fun and enticing because of this historic re-imagining and cross-pollination of cultures. Then theirs the game play side of it, every wonder that is NOT a winner-take all race too completion is one less exciting decision to make on whether or not to take that gamble. I love to build world wonders but nationals are completely BLAAA because theirs no race, I can always complete national wonders. Civi-specific wonders would be exactly the same BLAAA feeling and would be about 20 times less efficient on art assets too.

Impaler[WrG];9098247 said:

I'm going to have to give a big thumbs down on civ-specific wonders, I don't even like national wonders. Even these watered-down version in which a civ gets a production bonus for certain wonders or some 'prize' if they build 'their' wonder are bad ideas.

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Well, its not a bad idea to give a civ a bonus for building 'their' wonder. They built it in history, let em enjoy their acomplishment. Heck, give the civ +1 or +1, or +1 (or more) to any of the main categories hammers: ) depending on the wonder.

Impaler[WrG];9098247 said:

Those CivRev advertisements with things like "Ware were you when the Mayans built the Eiffel Tower?" are fun and enticing because of this historic re-imagining and cross-pollination of cultures.

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That's fine, it adds spice and flair to the game, but a small bonus to the wonder if the civ who really built it in history doesn't destroy that.

Impaler[WrG];9098247 said:

Then theirs the game play side of it, every wonder that is NOT a winner-take all race too completion is one less exciting decision to make on whether or not to take that gamble.

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Wonders with a bonus won't degrade the winner-take all scenario, it would actually escalate the competition. If your the Civ woh would get the bonus, u'd want to build it before another civ does. But if the AI is that civ, they'll race to get it done, as will you, so the AI doesn't get their bonus. It adds to the thrill of the gameplay.

Buddhafish said:

Well, its not a bad idea to give a civ a bonus for building 'their' wonder. They built it in history, let em enjoy their acomplishment. Heck, give the civ +1 or +1, or +1 (or more) to any of the main categories hammers: ) depending on the wonder.

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The player should be what's getting 'rewarded' not some historical 'point scoring'. I am sick and tired of people acting like this game 'owes' any nation/culture/civilization/people ANY kind of recognition. History is just FOOD to the games design, it eats, digests it, assimilates what its wants and excretes the rest. If it's not a good game-play mechanic no appeal to history can redeem it.

Buddhafish said:

Wonders with a bonus won't degrade the winner-take all scenario, it would actually escalate the competition. If your the Civ woh would get the bonus, u'd want to build it before another civ does. But if the AI is that civ, they'll race to get it done, as will you, so the AI doesn't get their bonus. It adds to the thrill of the gameplay.

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The size of the bonus your proposing is barely worth the players time or attention which means it is little more then 'noise' which should be avoided because its distracting to both the player and a waste of development resources. A Bonus that was large enough to incentivize the player would be even worse, it would effectively make one wonder or group of them the only smart choice and that is anathema to good game design.

@Impaler[WrG]
Dude, its a suggestion. The whole stinkin game of Civilization is HISTORY. That's the whole mindset of making the game. Sure, history is re-written in every game, but historic realism makes the game different. If in every game, the Pyramids are built by a different civ: the Mayans one game, the Native Americans the next, the Portugese sometime else, its interesting to see who builds it next, but itd be cool to see the Egyptians actually care about their own wonder. If you wanted to make it more 'unrelated to history', make 1 wonder that gives the civ a bonus all that you do.

Or if you don't even want to do that, make the AI just a little bid more inclined to build their wonder that they really built in history. For example, the Americans (AI controlled) come up to a descision, build the Three Gorges Dam or the Pentagon. Lets say that the turn count for building is very close between the two. The AI thinks (I guess you could call it that) about which one to build, and it has that little voice in the back of its head (AKA the programming) to build the Pentagon. Not much, but enough to make a close desicion. That can't be that hard to code, or a "waste of development resources" as you like to call it.

Rusty Edge said:

I'd like to see a couple natural wonders on each continent. Special graphics that would illustrate a tile or more, a free explorer for discovering the wonder, a happiness or cultural bonus, and some commerce. They could be specific famous geographical entities, or the could simply be Great Reef, Great Rock, Great Peak, Great Volcano, Great Cave, Great Gorge, Great Waterfall, Great Geyserfield, Great Fijord, Great Crater,
Great Lake, Great Abyss( could be in the ocean, or a low point such as Death Valley or the Dead Sea.).

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Man, thats a cool idea. Man didn't make Niagra Falls, or Ayers Rock, or the Great Barrier Reef, or Mt. Everest. It'd be interesting to see how that turned out if it ever went into the game. I know in civ 4 (now this is just guessing here) it can't be near impossible to create a mountain that's taller than the rest, or create a arch-shaped rock, or a coral reef looking thing. I'm not an art sorta guy, so I wouldn't know, but itd be cool.

@everyone
Some cool wonders would be the Gateway Arch in St. Louis, sorta what the Wembly was in RfC: an international soccer stadium (World Cup Stadium?) , and (I can't remember the name right now) but the Research Station in Antarctica. That'd be cool.

Because I'm Dutch, here are my suggestions:

- Schiphol Airport
- Rotterdam Harbor
- Flevopolder (large artificial island)
- Afsluitdijk (Big dam that changed the Zuiderzee (Sea) into a lake)

But they aren't including my country in vanilla, so these are probably not eligable...

Well, wonders made my peoples not in the game can still be fair game. However, wonders that aren't easier pronouncable by Americans probably won't be

The Sphinx should be a great wonder. I mean come on, the thing is OLD! And still standing. It's amazing, awe inspiring. as for what it could do... I have no idea, since no one knows much about how/why/exactly when it was built...