Anyone else sad they won't play V on release?

PawelS said:
I'm not a "Steam/internet generation kiddo", and I played all civs since 1, but I'm looking forward to civ5 (I especially like replacing the Civ4 combat mechanics with something much more interesting), and I don't believe that Steam is an evil monster that will eat my soul ;)
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Me either fellow old dude. I have a few games on Steam and my soul wasn't consumed as I initially feared. There are a few things I'll yell and stomp my feet about but this ain't it.
 
Modiga-Disabled said:
Before Left 4 Dead 2 came out, a Steam group was created announcing the members of said group would be boycotting the game. The shorthand reason for them doing so was because the sequel was released only a year after the original and they saw this as being too soon.

Long story short, that group actually bought L4D2 at a higher rate than any other group of L4D owners.
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That's an interesting claim. Do you have a link to your information?



rschissler said:
I wish we could keep track of those 91 naysayers, and find out how many of them finally break down and buy the game, even with Steam.
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I can only speak for myself and I won't be giving 2K any money. I also voted "I am undecided on whether I will buy the game, Steam is making me less likely to do so." so I am not included in the 91.

Fun with numbers! :)

Total votes: 629


"I will definitely NOT buy the game, because of Steam." - 91 votes

"Steam is making me less likely to buy it." - 156 votes

"Steam does not influence this decision either way." - 294 votes

"Steam is making me more likely to buy it." - 67 votes

"I will definitely buy the game, because of Steam." - 21 votes


It appears there is more dislike for Steam than love for it. I think it is reasonable to conclude that Steam is costing 2K some lost sales.
 
The question isn't "Are there people who won't buy the game because of Steam".
The question is: "Does steam bring in enough sales/lower costs more than the number of people who 'boycott' it?"
2K doesn't care if they lose a few thousand sales if they gain money by not having to build the services that steam offers. E.G, code their own multiplayer lobby/netcode, use another DRM service like Securom, and others.
Also, those polls are all multiple months old. The amount of people who actually aren't buying the game because of steam is dropping after exposure to Civ 5 and steam, as per every "boycott".
 
I have a strong feeling that once the game is out and people start posting here about all the fun they're having and the cool stuff they like and the great community features they're enjoying...a lot of the people who are saying they'll never buy the game due to Steam or 1upt or some other crazy thing will quietly and secretly buy the game, then suddenly start posting as though they were never NOT going to get it.
 
Sahkuhnder said:
I agree. But any lost sale is still a lost sale. It is still money that 2K could have made, but didn't.
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Yep, technically it is. But is the value of those lost sales less (at $50-60 a copy IF they would have bought new) less than the cost of designing or licensing another DRM scheme? And no, Firaxis isn't about to be going the Stardock route and releasing DRM-free as long as they have a mainstream publisher like 2k.

And compared to the small portion of people who are so offended by Steam that they won't buy it (and yes, I firmly believe that to be a very small sample, though I can't prove it), how many would they have lost going to a DRM like Ubisoft has recently? Or some of the more intrusive disk-based DRMs?

No, a few lost sales is nothing to panic about. Coming from a business where management is VERY concerned about the bottom line, and our subscriber numbers, we're more than willing to upset a small percentage of long-time subscribers if it makes the majority that much happier, and brings in even more. I think that's what Steam will do for Firaxis.
 
I preordered, but now amazon is estimating the 24th for shipping. But between work and a charity event on the weekend, and the delayed shipping, who the hell knows when I'll get to play it.
 
I'm sad I wont be able to play it with my friends back in Australia on its US release day. My pre-load is about half way done and I'm fairly sure I will be deathly sick and unable to make it to work on the 21st. And quite possibly the 22nd, 23rd & 24th.

The below image highlights the dangers of boycotting a really good game too.
Spoiler :
 
Nothing to see here - this debate is not new and is not restricted to CiV. The hardcore fans of anything are hard to transition over to a new version unless that new version is just a coat of polish on top of the previous one. And they tend to get really, really annoyed if a new version ISN'T just a coat of polish on the previous version.

The problem is, cultural sensibilities do change. You mostly can't package up a game from 2000 (nevermind from the '80s) and expect it to do very well today. Making the new version of X just be a clone of the old version with updated graphics is a losing proposition, because it mostly only gets the people who liked the previous version and are still interested. That number goes down with each generation, to the point where if you don't do a major update every now and then, your franchise dwindles down to nothingness.

TL;DR version: Hardcore gamers hate being marginalized, but the health of franchises depends on marginalizing them.
 
Sahkuhnder said:
I can only speak for myself and I won't be giving 2K any money. I also voted "I am undecided on whether I will buy the game, Steam is making me less likely to do so." so I am not included in the 91.

Fun with numbers! :)

Total votes: 629


"I will definitely NOT buy the game, because of Steam." - 91 votes

"Steam is making me less likely to buy it." - 156 votes

"Steam does not influence this decision either way." - 294 votes

"Steam is making me more likely to buy it." - 67 votes

"I will definitely buy the game, because of Steam." - 21 votes


It appears there is more dislike for Steam than love for it. I think it is reasonable to conclude that Steam is costing 2K some lost sales.
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I think that's a flawed conclusion to draw. The question wasn't about liking Steam, it was about how it affects your decision to buy the game.

I'm an avid Steam user and I voted "Steam does not influence this decision either way." because I was always (short of terrible gameplay previews) going to buy this game.

I also think the sample has bias; the voters all come from a single site, rather than a sample of the general (relevant) population. It really is a major stretch to draw any statistically valid conclusion from this alone.
 
Modiga-Disabled said:
I think that's a flawed conclusion to draw. The question wasn't about liking Steam, it was about how it affects your decision to buy the game.
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You may be talking about something different. I was talking about what influence like or dislike of Steam will make on purchases of Civ5. The poll data I posted was for that exact question and shows more Civfanatics decision to purchase Civ5 is negatively influenced by Steam than are positively influenced.



Modiga-Disabled said:
I also think the sample has bias; the voters all come from a single site, rather than a sample of the general (relevant) population. It really is a major stretch to draw any statistically valid conclusion from this alone.
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I agree there is of course bias:

Sahkuhnder said:
...Forums represent only a small sample of players. My point was that considering this is a Civ-friendly forum the polls show a surprisingly Civ-unfriendly response. 2K has done a fine job of alienating some of their hardest-core Civ supporters - to the point now where they refuse to purchase the next Civ game. That is what you can infer from those numbers.
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Based on the poll data I stand by my previous statements:

Sahkuhnder said:
It appears there is more dislike for Steam than love for it. I think it is reasonable to conclude that Steam is costing 2K some lost sales.
Click to expand...

Sahkuhnder said:
...any lost sale is still a lost sale. It is still money that 2K could have made, but didn't.
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Modiga-Disabled said:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/09/08/interview-gabe-on-valves-big-surprises/

Here you go.
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That is interesting. Thank you for the link. :)
 
Quite a conclusion to draw from a non-scientific poll in a community that may not be representative of PC gaming in general.

Let's wait for the sales data which will be the only objective indicator.
 
ZimbuTheMonkey said:
Quite a conclusion to draw from a non-scientific poll in a community that may not be representative of PC gaming in general.
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I see my conclusions as simple and obvious. Which conclusion do you disagree with?

Sahkuhnder said:
It appears there is more dislike for Steam than love for it. I think it is reasonable to conclude that Steam is costing 2K some lost sales.
Click to expand...

Sahkuhnder said:
...any lost sale is still a lost sale. It is still money that 2K could have made, but didn't.
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====================

ZimbuTheMonkey said:
Let's wait for the sales data which will be the only objective indicator.
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Until the sales data is released we are currently having a nice discussion. You are of course welcome to participate or not.
 
Any decision is likely to steer at least one person away from the game. A feature might lose some sales, but you have to consider that it might also gain some. Losing 10 people, but gaining 20 would suggest a decision was good.

Not that it's ever going to be possible to calculate the net change in sales through utilizing Steam Works.
 
bjbrains said:
You miss an important point: There are far more hard-core civs fans on these forums than not. The percentages don't carry over to the world as a whole, where the vast majority of people who will buy this game have been minimally following this game, let alone posting on forums.
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I am one of those people who just follows but not post. I am sure there are other like me out there. My only comment about steam is that it is one of the main components that I believe is helping keep PC gaming alive. Don't complain about steam until you get use to it. I love it and I prefer to buy games online then retail just because I am really bad with keep disks in good quality. That and I won't have to crack the protection to make a backup of the disk because they're all on steam.
 
Modiga-Disabled said:
Any decision is likely to steer at least one person away from the game. A feature might lose some sales, but you have to consider that it might also gain some. Losing 10 people, but gaining 20 would suggest a decision was good.
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The poll data indicates a net loss of sales. To use your example, "losing 20 people, but gaining 10 which would suggest the decision was bad".



Not that it's ever going to be possible to calculate the net change in sales through utilizing Steam Works.
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I agree that it's not possible to calculate net change in sales through utilizing Steam Works. I also have seen endless posts though praising Steam and proclaiming it is widely loved and that anyone who doesn't want it or sees it as useless to them is in some tiny insignificant minority. The numbers from that poll indicate otherwise.
 
tomato3017 said:
I am one of those people who just follows but not post. I am sure there are other like me out there. My only comment about steam is that it is one of the main components that I believe is helping keep PC gaming alive. Don't complain about steam until you get use to it. I love it and I prefer to buy games online then retail just because I am really bad with keep disks in good quality. That and I won't have to crack the protection to make a backup of the disk because they're all on steam.
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Welcome! [party]:band::dance::rockon:

I'm sure Steam is great for many people like yourself. It certainly has some very vocal hard-core supporters on this forum. :mischief:

Your opinion is as valid as anyone else's here so if you have something to say there's no need to be shy about it. Even if the discussion gets heated it's still just for fun.
 
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