Dislike the direction CIV5 is taking? Tell us how you'd do it!

Bibor said:

I'd say Nurnberg trials > Hague trials! Hang except if proven completely innocent.

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As no one is completely innocent even in theory ( if they didn't done anything wrong, they atleast have not done enough to stop the wrongdoers, otherwise they would had not done any wrongdoing ), I guess you are asking for a genocide

Zyxpsilon said:

FFMO = Fiscal & Financial Monitoring Organization. At the absolute top of the Pyramid -- above all Governments, all Social devices, all Banking interests, all Fortunes or Escape Paradises, all Population demands & offers, all Justice systems, all Economic issues, all other considerations for any & every rational reasons.

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maybe I've read one too many one world government conspiracy theories but I find the prospect of the above truly terrifying

who watches the watcher?

sketch162000 said:

The problem is that critical posts like:

are almost always dismissed by Civ V defenders as:

...regardless of how well the complaints are reasoned.

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shouldn't that be (disclaimer, please this is satire and not my view):

Anyone who doesn't love everything about civ5 is just a bunch of arrogant elitest control freaks who are just a bunch of whiney cry babies who are having a tantrum because they didn't get everything they wanted and all they wanted is just civ 4.5 anyway because they are so afraid of change that they only have one pair of underpants plus my dad would beat their dad in a fight and stacks of doom are bullies and are bad and have bad breath.

(does that sum up things up?)

yeah that must get old

r_rolo1 said:

As no one is completely innocent even in theory ( if they didn't done anything wrong, they atleast have not done enough to stop the wrongdoers, otherwise they would had not done any wrongdoing ), I guess you are asking for a genocide

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Whoops! Well *cough* a few people were freed at Nurnberg trials.

The Hague Tribunal is probably working to its limits, but the limits are the problem. Many concepts need to be reworked if they want this court to work properly. For example, all freedom fighters are considered to be paramilitary formations until the UN bothers to recongize the independence. Which can take months or even years. By that same logic, all military commanders of the US war of independence should be tried posthumously at the British court because they weren't recognized as a state for quite some time.

SpearMan153 said:

shouldn't that be (disclaimer, please this is satire and not my view):

Anyone who doesn't love everything about civ5 is just a bunch of arrogant elitest control freaks who are just a bunch of whiney cry babies who are having a tantrum because they didn't get everything they wanted and all they wanted is just civ 4.5 anyway because they are so afraid of change that they only have one pair of underpants plus my dad would beat their dad in a fight and stacks of doom are bullies and are bad and have bad breath.

(does that sum up things up?)

yeah that must get old

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I tip my hat to your keen observation on both sides of the issue

SpearMan153 said:

who watches the watcher?

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Fair assumption.
New UN on steroids with a clear and definitive agenda to eliminate Poverty from Earth which includes - Education, Health, etc.

The GreenBay Packers won the SuperBowl couple of weeks ago this year in Dallas with QB Rodgers holding a six year, $65 million contract until the 2014 season.
Now here's another athlete which will most probably have a very comfy retirement by the age of 35-40 while a 50+ father of 3 works 40 hours/week (at any regular jobs, in Dallas) to earn about 200,000$/year. He brought one of his boys at *THE* game attended by 100,000 paying roughly 450$/ticket each. 110 millions watched it on TeeVee.

Kovalchuk in NJ, skating and pushing pucks for the money.

Do the math.
Which of these three lives (and will) in luxury?

Zyxpsilon said:

Do the math.
Which of these three lives (and will) in luxury?

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depends on your definition of luxury

to the widow with 5 children trying to scratch out a living bare foot in the garbage dumps of the developing world they are all rich beyond belief

I can't even fathom how hard it is for the third world to catch up with such "Capitalists" injustice to rational social principles solved millenias ago by a crucified genius. Not to name Him.
How's Christchurch in New Zealand (since you're from Australia), btw?
Earthquakes have different consequences in different places, indeed.

The problem of civ5 is the same probleme of all the industry of the "complex strategic game". There is not enough buyer. A lot of strategic game didn't get a second edition because they just didn't get enough sell. I think civilization didn't have this problem but they see the profit from the other kind of game and they are trying to do someting similar.

Your poll responses are too confined for a question this obviously broad.

I suspect you know this yet chose to word the poll options this way in some hope of casting Firaxis's design decisions in some kind of positive light.

You use the word "us" in your thread title as if you were some kind of portal to a larger group of people who will listen to you once you're ready to tell them what you've gleaned from your "poll."

I find this thread to be intentionally misleading and also a little bit arrogant, mainly due to the title. You should stick to videos.

builer680 said:

You use the word "us" in your thread title as if you were some kind of portal to a larger group of people who will listen to you once you're ready to tell them what you've gleaned from your "poll."

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I just took the "us" to be all of us as in the civ finatics community, perhaps you are seeign something that is not there?

SpearMan153 said:

I just took the "us" to be all of us as in the civ finatics community, perhaps you are seeign something that is not there?

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Or maybe you are?

Sometimes phrasing things a certain way can lead to different ways of interpreting them. It's easy to choose a way of phrasing something that you know can be taken in a way that isn't flattering or seems arrogant, but you also know that later you can claim that it was meant another way.

The fact that a person would intentionally choose such a phrasing, when he could just as easily picked a more innocuous and less likely to be misunderstood phrasing, indicates that he wanted it to be misconstrued, just so that later he (or someone else) could jump in and claim it wasn't meant that way. Just as you're doing. But in the meantime, he still gets to refer to himself as some kind of doorway to "us," while pretending he didn't mean it that way.

It could have been phrased differently, for example... "Dislike the direction CIV5 is taking? How would you do it?" No 'supposedly' unintentional reference to himself as some kind of 'gatekeeper of idea transfer' to an imaginary group of people in that title.

But no, he chose to word it the way he did. Make of it what you will, but the fact that he used a phrasing that CAN be taken that way when there were alternatives that COULDN'T be taken that way is indisputable. I see it as pretty arrogant.

builer680 said:

I see it as pretty arrogant.

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Or maybe I'm not a native english speaker so I missed one of thousand possible meanings of what I wrote. Have you really nothing better to do than bashing me for not being born in Stratford-upon-Avon?

You know enough English to know the difference between "us," "me," "I, and "you," and the places where you can omit their usage. I know this because I've seen you do so in other posts. Ignorance of a language is a poor excuse for someone who has repeatedly demonstrated their capability to write very well in that language.

This means you deliberately worded your title in this manner, and can be seen by some as a plausibly deniable attempt to puff up your own importance.

Zyxpsilon said:

I can't even fathom how hard it is for the third world to catch up with such "Capitalists" injustice to rational social principles solved millenias ago by a crucified genius. Not to name Him.

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sorry you lost me there

but as for me and my house give me the words written in red of the first century rabbi over the machinations of a good intentioned soon to be corrupt and ineffectual UN v2.0

Zyxpsilon said:

How's Christchurch in New Zealand (since you're from Australia), btw?

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yes terrible stuff, some rescued against odds many not - I probably only know as much as you despite being geographically next door

Zyxpsilon said:

Earthquakes have different consequences in different places, indeed.

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and not just earthquakes, if you remember the recent floods and cyclones we've had here in Australia

yes I count myself blessed to live where I live

Moderator Action: I've been serious: Back to topic.

To the mods: I'm exerting right of response in this part of the post. That is within the rules of the forum as I understand them.

Bibor said:

Whoops! Well *cough* a few people were freed at Nurnberg trials.

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True, but Nuremberg trials did not assumed the accused guilty before trial ... atleast that was the theory .

Bibor said:

The Hague Tribunal is probably working to its limits, but the limits are the problem. Many concepts need to be reworked if they want this court to work properly. For example, all freedom fighters are considered to be paramilitary formations until the UN bothers to recongize the independence. Which can take months or even years. By that same logic, all military commanders of the US war of independence should be tried posthumously at the British court because they weren't recognized as a state for quite some time.

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That has a simple reason ... if the paramilitary groups are to bounded by law of war in the same way than regular military, they adquire a de facto equal standing to regular armies as far as the court is concerned. This leads to the situation that all the armed forces should be judged by the court ( basically dragging the UN "peace corps" to the court, due to the blind sight they did to some massacres, and the Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian regular armies as well ... a situation no one of the big heads desires ) or neither has to be there. Hence you need a clear border between the paramilitary and the military :/

End of right of response

On topic:

I think that Firaxis lost a big oportunity of running development for Civ V with CivCol. It was a golden op for running new gameplay elements for later use ... and , instead they runned the thing as it was a cool hybrid between civ IV and a rehash of the nostalgic Original colonization. I really don't see anything of CivCol that has entered in Civ V, besides the possible Great Person -> SP inheritance between CivCol and Civ V ( the systems have some similarities ... not very deep ones though ). IMHO a wasted op for testing the waters...

Create a simpler game that is going to attract new players; make it more complex through expansions.

Then, i stand by my choice and nothing i or anyone could write will ever change the fact that Bibor tricked us (again) into biased results.
Good bye, another Poll thread over -- i've got better things to do, AFAIC.

I voted for make the game more complex and add further complexity later on.

Settler difficulty is for beginners. IMHO I've enjoyed civ5 so much because I was a semi-casual civ4 gamer who rarely ventured into emperor territory, much less immortal+.

Don't get me wrong, you know I'm a huge fan of civ5, but...


Sid has really turned off a huge part of his fanbase imho with the current game. And the part that he turned off is generally the most dedicated fans, the true civ lifers, the ones who sang civ4's praise to the high heavens once bts turned it into such a gem. A better way to bilk more money out of users would have been to find a way to make it MMO-like with monthly subsription fees. The 1% diehards would have paid the money for it instead of trashing the game if it was truly an improvement on bts.

Of course, many many users have issues not with the core of the game itself but rather the horrible unfinished state in which it shipped. The blame for that goes to firaxis/EA. Maybe if they hadn't laid off 1/2 the company right before launch they would have gotten enormous positive buzz instead of the hate feedback that they got instead.

bryanw1995 said:

I voted for make the game more complex and add further complexity later on.

Settler difficulty is for beginners. IMHO I've enjoyed civ5 so much because I was a semi-casual civ4 gamer who rarely ventured into emperor territory, much less immortal+.

Don't get me wrong, you know I'm a huge fan of civ5, but...


Sid has really turned off a huge part of his fanbase imho with the current game. And the part that he turned off is generally the most dedicated fans, the true civ lifers, the ones who sang civ4's praise to the high heavens once bts turned it into such a gem. A better way to bilk more money out of users would have been to find a way to make it MMO-like with monthly subsription fees. The 1% diehards would have paid the money for it instead of trashing the game if it was truly an improvement on bts.

Of course, many many users have issues not with the core of the game itself but rather the horrible unfinished state in which it shipped. The blame for that goes to firaxis/EA. Maybe if they hadn't laid off 1/2 the company right before launch they would have gotten enormous positive buzz instead of the hate feedback that they got instead.

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yes mistakes were made (not unforgivable imo) and firaxis has much proverbial egg on the face, hopefully lessons have been learned and they will do better next time

interesting thoughts on the MMO'esk/subscription based model - had been thinking of that myself recently...

imagine a super massive realworld map with hundreds of human players hosted on the cloud