England the new best Civ?

Yeah I know I said that I wont post anymore about this thing, but since it seems like that you have now understood what I tried to say before, I will answer to your critics.

”Military UA” (with regular UA + UU’s of course) would help the AI because then you could code the AI to use that particular civs ability right from the start of the game. This is much more easier to code the AI to than just the UU system where the UU appears in different time with different civs and that some civs get to carry the benefits and others don’t. Just like the regular UA, the “military UA” would also give all civs more characteristic and in overall make the game more interesting. Example: England is basicly already having a “military UA” with their +2 extra ship movement, just add a regular UA to its arsenal and BAM, theres one civ with UA, UU’s and the new “military UA”.

And please everyone, think outside the box when thinking about this “military UA” –thing. Im not saying they should change the system in the upcoming G&K or any other possible future expansion for the civ5 for that matter. Why? Because the civ5’s AI would not propably benefit anything from it, obviously because it is not build for it. So if you are waiting me to rework all the civs in civ5 and present them to you in this conversation, then sorry to disappoint you but its not going to happen. England was just an example how the “military UA” could work in practice, im sure you all got the picture.

Do start a thread in the "suggestions and ideas" subforum of Civ5 though, if you want to discuss it. You will get a warmer response, although the traffic there is much lower.

It took me about 5 posts to actually get my point across for you guys (because my bad english skills). So you can be sure that I am not going to start a thread about this thing, im NOT going to start this all over again :crazyeye:. But thanks for the tip anyway.

You have just discovered a gameplay aspect of the game that most of us already knew, and now you are trying to rationalize it.

Yeah I see what you are aiming with that, how can I possibly understand the system if I just discovered it, right? Well this is not rocket science, actually it’s a loophole that you just happen to call “gameplay aspect”. AI wise im normally not too fond of adding new gameplay systems to a game (for obvious reasons), but this case is fundamentally different. Because If not all the civs has that what you call “gameplay aspect” available and the AI does not even understand to use it –at all-, then I would not call it a “gameplay aspect”, it’s a loophole for the human player. And as I have already told that I know that there are many systems in the game that us humans can use more better than the AI can, (I mean that’s why the AI gets so many bonuses, right?) but combat is a bit different. The AI aids are far more limited in combat, sure you can give the AI more units but that’s about it. So therefore giving this kind of loophole for the human players in combat, is actually a huge mistake. So yeah, I actually do understand whats going on with this “feature”, even tough I just discovered it. Also FYI, the reason why I haven’t really discovered this before is the fact that almost all my games have been with civs that do not have this loophole in their UU’s, like England and Rome. So please don’t think im stupid just because I (because of a personal preference) haven’t got the same change to actually discover it as the others who have discovered it propably has got.
 
So please don’t think im stupid just because I (because of a personal preference) haven’t got the same change to actually discover it as the others who have discovered it propably has got.

Ok, re-reading my post I come across as quite rude, even though it wasn't my intention, so sorry for that. I never meant to convey that you were stupid.:blush:
 
Ditto, I just tried to explain the balance as I understood. I didn't understand your intention and thought you wanted to make these changes to the current ciV system, I think your ideas would be worth looking into for civ 6, though.
 
Maybe England should be strong in those periods? The age of commerce (frigates and setting up an over sea empire) and in the industrial age (with the gatling and machine gun). Seems to make sense to me. I also dont see it being to overpowered. Machine guns will soon get superceded by tanks.

I don't see Liz invading the world. Maybe in human hands it is a bit more unbalanced.
 
Ok, re-reading my post I come across as quite rude, even though it wasn't my intention, so sorry for that. I never meant to convey that you were stupid.:blush:

No problem at all. Looking back what I wrote, maybe I should of rephrased what I said.
 
Fair enough, as long as you’ll just note that I never said anything about finding “true balance”.

Fair enough, "true balance" was a term I used, and I meant it to be synonymous with "effective balance". I merely meant that I never even implied removing units to maintain proper/effective game balance.

I still stand by what I said, though. It seems like the only effective balancing would be to make sure that every empire has the same exact units and same exact abilities. To do otherwise would be to introduce (potential) imbalance.

That's really the issue that you bring up, yes? That some Unique Units have promotions/abilities that are both persistent (don't go away on the unit being upgraded) and unavailable to other empires, which some consider to be poor balance.

How would you propose having empires that have distinctions beyond those of mere graphics or different city names? I daresay that any inherent gameplay advantage that one empire has that another empire does not could be similarly considered to be poor balancing.
 
Altough I find for my part ''Sun Never Set'' an incredible bonus on the right maps, apparently many people find England somewhat underpowered.

In addition the James Bond lampshading (one extra spy ), in Kings, something will change

Longbowen might keep their extra range as they evolve in gatling troopers and machine gunners.

The range bonus make the Longbowmen quite OP in their epoch. This advantage will now last to the end of the game (altough the speed of modern units might offset a bit the advantage of the extra range(1)


(1)At least for me, the biggest advantage of the range is that the infantry can't really close on longbowmen (the range being larger than their move speed) : usually, knights can't really close on them before.
 
@Aziantuntija

I, for myself, understand what you are saying perfectly. I just don't think it's a good idea, for many reasons which have already been listed above.

Having UUs which behave in different ways, some of which are weak at a given time, but are good when they upgrade; and others which are very strong but only for a certain amount of time is nice. Replacing all of this variety with, in effect, a military UA is just not my cup of tea.

Pretty heady thread but this sums it up very nicely. One of the greatest joys of Civ5 are the Unique Units and diversity they bring to the game (which previous versions lacked). Most of the time, I pchoose the civ that I want to play because of their UU, balancing an early one vs. a middle one vs. a late one for different gameplays.
 
I think one of the fundamental advantages of the current system is that it values quality (promotions) over quantity (Civ4). Fighting with only 7 highly-promoted Camel Archers (for example) was great fun and made me focus on keeping them alive, along with careful placement and not abusing insta-heal. It got to the point where each one was so valuable and unreplaceable that great care had to be taken. I understand that this is not inherent to Unique Units but I do like the "head start" (along with the civ-flavored uniqueness) that they provide in their quality.
 
With the improvements for the English there can be only one thing said:

Britannia rules the waves!
 
In this thread we had some discussion about UU's unique abilities and should they or should they not keep those UA's after upgrade. I said that the UA should not pass on after the upgrade because of couple of things, the AI being one of those reasons. Well, how does the G&K handle this "problem"?
 
I wont have it until tomorrow, but I'd guess that losing indirect fire will go SOME way towards keeping MG-Longbows under control.
 
With the improvements for the English there can be only one thing said:

Britannia rules the waves!
Until you face a three times as large Ottoman navy.
Which he dont need to either build or pay gold in upkeep for btw (well, 1/3 tbh). :lol:

Basically he can faceroll the keyboard and your world famous English navy is at the bottom of the sea.

Nice balancing there, Firaxis. :crazyeye:
 
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