Trading Posts

Wasn't there a Tooltip from one of the videos that indicated that Trading Posts that had an ITR passing through it generated an extra +1 gold?
 
... For all we know, they might have to tone down ITR's to make DTR's feasible. We just don't know yet.

I'm thinking ITR will bet overall better but if you're blocked from using them by poor diplomacy or whatever you'll have DTR so those routes aren't idle.
 
Also, in the early parts of the game you won't have many neighbours to have ITRs with, so their main use will be domestic, propping up new cities, sending production into the capital for wonders.
 
trading post and lumber mills removed??? I dont' think look at this Tech tree look at guilds and construction Tech,TP and Lumbermills could still be built.
 
I rarely bother building trading posts, my cities are usually surrounded in farmland lol :)

Tho might you not build them on a hill? :)
 
trading post and lumber mills removed??? I dont' think look at this Tech tree
[snip]
look at guilds and construction Tech,TP and Lumbermills could still be built.

You know this thread is two months old, yes? We've known for quite a while that they weren't removed.:)

(Also, if you don't mind, please put large images in spoilers. It makes reading easier.)
 
I do think that a replacing improvement yielding gold needs to be introduced. Here comes a [village --> town] system in my mind. A system as in civ IV (cottage --> hamlet --> village --> town ) is a bit too "time-stretched". But this improvement you can't spam on all the tiles by discouraging it with negative modifiers and limiting
the amount within a city radius around 4-6 per city. Once you unlock this improvement with the required technology (best one of ancient or classical era techs) you only can build 1-2 of these. The limit increases with certain techs, as an increase with each era would increase the limit too much. As for the negative modifier I had in mind that villages/towns that have one or more adjacent villages/towns or a city will yield 1 less gold. This will also let the player spread out villages/towns in a “realistic way”. Here I am already proposing that a village will have at least a 2 gold yield and town 3. This will make them yield more than TP's but this wouldn’t be game breaking since you have a cap on it.


I also have two other propositions for these villages/towns. When you place a village/town on a tile the cultural borders will grow in that direction more easily than others. This way you can steer cultural borders in a way besides tile buying. The other idea is when a city has sea (resource) tiles and isn’t coastal you should be able to build workboats if the city has a village/town adjacent to a coast tile.

I love the idea about changing the trading posts into vilage/town improvements. In my opinion trading posts have a few vital flaws flavor wise.

1.You just spam them where you have useles space without any planig their strategic position or anyting.
2.They end up cluttering the view.
3.They don't look that great.

Trading posts being replaced by vilages with a city like graphic (like when your city grows into tiles around it) would make the game much more apeling.

I would give them the ability to produce 2 gold after economics (as is now) and +1 gold if not adjecent to any other vilage or the city.

After a certain tech they could be given the ability to grow (lets say 10 turns) to towns gaining +1 if not adjecent to another vilage/town or the city. That would make the improvement have +2 gold as is now and another +2 gold if not adjecent to other centers of trade simulating a regional center of trade and giving a little more fun to planing where to put them.

Since in a 36 tile circle (max city workable tiles) you can put a maximum of 12 towns averaging down to about 6 per city (mountains, sea, lakes, luxuries etc disrupting the patern) it wouldnt be owerpowered.

Now you can calculate would it be more profitable for you puting it here or there, have few towns that produce more gold per citizan or have many vilages.

If we add +1 gold for having a road conection to a city it would be even more interesting having to calculate your existing road conections into the patern.

If a enemy unit pilages the improvement he would gain more gold than for a regular vilage(trading post) and force you to wait another 10 turns for your vilage to grow to a town.

Alsto, Hakan-i Cihan your idea for border steering is great. You have an internet cookie from me. :D


What do you guys think ? :)
 
i think it would be more interesting to let trading post interact with city connections, roads/railroads and trade routes.

the yield in itself should be zero, built beside a road or river could give +1 gold, city connected road +1 more gold, and further +1 for each trade route passing by.

caravans could get and extended range if they passee the TP.

that way you would have to place the strategically to syphon gold at choke points like mountain passes.
 
If they changed trading posts to towns, and made them look a bit smaller instead of taking up a whole tile i'd be happy. The biggest thing I miss from C IV has to be how late game my cities would be surrounded by suburbs usually, and I could actually build a metro area between two cities like what happens in RL.

If they brought back the town system itself i'd be ecstatic but I haven't heard anything of it and highly doubt it will happen in any form, I think we're stuck with ugly trading posts... I haven't seen a mod, but if anyone knows of one I would love to be enlightened.
 
I would like them to just chance the graphic for the trading post, like in Civ4 where it was the same as the city itself but smaller.
 
i think it would be more interesting to let trading post interact with city connections, roads/railroads and trade routes.

the yield in itself should be zero, built beside a road or river could give +1 gold, city connected road +1 more gold, and further +1 for each trade route passing by.

caravans could get and extended range if they passee the TP.

that way you would have to place the strategically to syphon gold at choke points like mountain passes.

Well that would be the minimum they could do but i think thats not that chalenging.
You usualy have one or 2 roads to other cities or a net of roads everywhere for defence.
In either case the choice where to put a trading post is pretty simple.
As for chokes, well there are not that many chokes in a game usualy 2-3 except so i dont know how much fun would you end up having (and chokes are fun allready so they dont need any more bonuses IMO :D )


If they changed trading posts to towns, and made them look a bit smaller instead of taking up a whole tile i'd be happy. The biggest thing I miss from C IV has to be how late game my cities would be surrounded by suburbs usually, and I could actually build a metro area between two cities like what happens in RL.

If they brought back the town system itself i'd be ecstatic but I haven't heard anything of it and highly doubt it will happen in any form, I think we're stuck with ugly trading posts... I haven't seen a mod, but if anyone knows of one I would love to be enlightened.


I would like them to just chance the graphic for the trading post, like in Civ4 where it was the same as the city itself but smaller.

Yeah, the graphic change would be awesome itself but there would arise a new/old problem of cluttered screen where your city+trading posts having the same graphic would take the whole view.
Maybe it would be cool like having a MEGA city but then again there would be too many mega cities and some of them would have farms in them. :p

Anyway i doubt that they would make any changes to trading posts but "a gal can dream". :p And maybe the devs are reading these posts sometimes so we could slip an idea to their plans for future dlc or even an expansion.
 
Yeah, the graphic change would be awesome itself but there would arise a new/old problem of cluttered screen where your city+trading posts having the same graphic would take the whole view.
Maybe it would be cool like having a MEGA city but then again there would be too many mega cities and some of them would have farms in them. :p

Anyway i doubt that they would make any changes to trading posts but "a gal can dream". :p And maybe the devs are reading these posts sometimes so we could slip an idea to their plans for future dlc or even an expansion.

In C IV I believe they randomized the look of towns slightly, so they didn't look like cookie cutters like the current trading posts do. That's all I really want, that and a name change.

I see your point with the clutter, since there is no working to grow them they all start out the same, whereas in C IV only the largest cities would have sprawling suburbs. But we already get trading post clutter as is so I don't see too much of an issue.
 
I really miss cottages from Civ IV. I think they're one element in which their omission from Civ V really fits the charge of "dumbing down" the game.

I could find 3 arguments against the cottages, first is general, 2 are Civ5-specific.

1. Improvement growing over time can't be balanced with other improvements. So early-built cottages are more powerful than other improvements, while those built later are weaker.

2. One of the most important thing about cottages was protecting them against pillaging. With SoD this works ok, but with 1UPT it's almost impossible to protect tiles from pillaging during serious war. That's one of the reasons why in Civ5 improvements aren't pillaged to the ground.

3. With more game systems to come, developers have to balance output of gold and happiness by limiting its sources. Adding improvement which grows gold output over time would make the things difficult.

So, I think the improvement was quite ok in Civ 4, but doesn't suit well in Civ 5.
 
Cottages would be extremely difficult to balance without the commerce/slider system; it's always been my impression that that's why they were removed. I miss cottages too, but then, I miss the sliders somewhat as well.
 
I could find 3 arguments against the cottages, first is general, 2 are Civ5-specific.

1. Improvement growing over time can't be balanced with other improvements. So early-built cottages are more powerful than other improvements, while those built later are weaker.

2. One of the most important thing about cottages was protecting them against pillaging. With SoD this works ok, but with 1UPT it's almost impossible to protect tiles from pillaging during serious war. That's one of the reasons why in Civ5 improvements aren't pillaged to the ground.

3. With more game systems to come, developers have to balance output of gold and happiness by limiting its sources. Adding improvement which grows gold output over time would make the things difficult.

So, I think the improvement was quite ok in Civ 4, but doesn't suit well in Civ 5.

1. Saying we cant balance things that grow is saying we cant have cities.

2. As you said they are not burned to the ground. Posibily pilaging cotages should give more gold so we should think twice before spaming them in frontier cities. Maybe even asigne 1 or 2 units to protect improvements in a city.

3. I agree that gold should be more scarce to actualy make you work those luxuries but adding cotages isnt about making gold more abundant. It is about making improvements more fun by introducing the strategic positioning aspect to it. Filing our hearts with joy when we see our babby cotages grow is a plus too. :p

For balance reasons maintanence of some key buildings or buildings in general could be incrised. That way we could have a fun new mechanic and an incrise in gold value.
 
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