So Machine Gun has the strength of a Panzer?

Sestey said:
Actually...yes I do want them hanging out around my city...it would then be a real seige...unlike now. Seiges historically took months and years...so whatever fireaxis needs to do to do that I am all for
Click to expand...

I can agree with this, making sieges last longer would be nice. With a higher city strength the only way to really take over a city is either pounding it repeatedly with siege units or suiciding melee units into it. Unless you really have the upperhand this would take longer and allow for counterattacks by the defending civ.

Right now, it does often feel like sieges are short (wheter you fail or succeed), and this leads to a steamroll situation. I think the idea for stronger cities but without ranged attack is a good one, especially to make conquest sligthly less easy and more strategic (you'll need the right units and enough of them).
 
Good to hear MG's have range 1.
Now the 'only' unknown is the positive generic promotion of the MG. It will probably be a bonus against gunpowder units, which would make Artillery the most logical counterunit (or Fighters, but the early fighters would just be support units).
 
*Really* good to hear! I was worried a little bit, that the MG could have a bigger range. More and more I'm convinced, that firaxis did a very good job with this expansion and invested some serious thoughts in what they are doing. Maybe, the influence of the new lead designer?

I'm optimistic!

--

Beside the positive promotion, it's still open, whether or not the MG will be in the archer upgrade path. (I don't hope so.)
 
Deggial said:
Beside the positive promotion, it's still open, whether or not the MG will be in the archer upgrade path. (I don't hope so.)
Click to expand...

Hmmm... It is doubtfull. On one side, I do not want to see machineguns with the range and indirect fire promotion. On the other hand, what else is there? Mortars?

If I had to choose between crossbows upgrading to machineguns (preferably with something in between) or crossbows remaining an deadend and machineguns needing to be build as fresh units I'd choose the first.

Otherwise we'll have a very odd WW1 era, machinegun up front, crossbows behind, artillery in the back. I do not want to see that please.
 
CYZ said:
Hmmm... It is doubtfull. On one side, I do not want to see machineguns with the range and indirect fire promotion. On the other hand, what else is there? Mortars?

If I had to choose between crossbows upgrading to machineguns (preferably with something in between) or crossbows remaining an deadend and machineguns needing to be build as fresh units I'd choose the first.

Otherwise we'll have a very odd WW1 era, machinegun up front, crossbows behind, artillery in the back. I do not want to see that please.
Click to expand...

And the range promotion wouldn't be too bad since artillery has a range of 3, and the MG+range would have a range of 2.
 
CYZ said:
Otherwise we'll have a very odd WW1 era, machinegun up front, crossbows behind, artillery in the back. I do not want to see that please.
Click to expand...

:lol: You are right!

But then, they promised 27 new units (and, as the most recent articles state, new for the *normal* game, *no* scenario units taken into account!).

Hence I am optimistic for a mortar-like unit. :)
 
Deggial said:
:lol: You are right!

But then, they promised 27 new units (and, as the most recent articles state, new for the *normal* game, *no* scenario units taken into account!).

Hence I am optimistic for a mortar-like unit. :)
Click to expand...

That would be interesting... although I would hope the "mortar" units would be range 1 (essentially making them more defensive than offensive.. so you still have to get Chemistry/Dynamite)
 
Artillery-mortar-MG in train
Oh, my.

Build those Maginot-lines, people!

Artillery-mortar-MG
Artillery-mortar-MG
Artillery-mortar-MG
Artillery-mortar-MG
Artillery-mortar-MG
And of course the MG's in citadels :p

(Of course easy to take out the MG's and mortars with creeping artillery, but it's the image that counts ;) )
 
A Mortar could be fun. Range 2 would seem likely, but just as the Archer and Crossbowman a weak defense, maybe a bonus against mounted and a penalty against gunpowder units.

By the way, the Land Ship tank would probably receive a bonus against MG's. So take out the MG with a Land Ship, take out the Mortar with Artillery and then Infantry to fight off the enemy Artillery. :p
 
I'm ready to bet that it's not that simple to get rid of MGs with plain artillery. They must have a special defense bonus against ranged attacks, in Civ IV they were immune to collateral damage, and in WW1 even massive bombardments of several days couldn't remove them of fortified positions.

So options are a human wave attack or trampling them under Land Ships..

Also, I'd like this line of upgrade path:

Crosbowmen - Grenadiers - Machineguns (or mortars)
 
Didn't one of those articles mention the land ship is part of the Sci-Fi scenario?
 
The "huge tractor-like tanks" could be the landship.
 
I think it would be odd to have the Celts in the Victorian scenario. Otherwise, it's certainly a possibility.

I think the smart way to do it would be to have it for both.
 
So what do you think comes after machine guns. Machine guns existed in both WW1 and WW2, so we'll hopefully see two version of them, but what about modern ranged units:

- Jeep mounted with a machine gun (fast, range 1, move after attacking)
or
- Sniper (slow, range 2)
or
- Remote controlled machine gun (???)
or
- ?????

I am not pleased with any of my ideas, so please discuss and/or add to the list.
 
The field machine gun has been pretty stagnant since WW2. Just incramental improvements in materials, manufacturing processes, etc. It's still something that gets lugged around by a small team and deployed in a stationary position or mounted to a vehicle. If the MG upgrades to anything, it might be a future tech unit, like a combat robot or something. You can't really do the vehicle mount because that's Mech Inf.
 
Eagle Pursuit said:
The field machine gun has been pretty stagnant since WW2. Just incramental improvements in materials, manufacturing processes, etc. It's still something that gets lugged around by a small team and deployed in a stationary position or mounted to a vehicle. If the MG upgrades to anything, it might be a future tech unit, like a combat robot or something. You can't really do the vehicle mount because that's Mech Inf.
Click to expand...

It might get a vehicle upgrade in Modern Era (slightly stronger stats but 3 or 4 movement) That way those crossbows could stay current.
 
anandus said:
Artillery-mortar-MG in train
Oh, my.

Build those Maginot-lines, people!

Artillery-mortar-MG
Artillery-mortar-MG
Artillery-mortar-MG
Artillery-mortar-MG
Artillery-mortar-MG
And of course the MG's in citadels :p

(Of course easy to take out the MG's and mortars with creeping artillery, but it's the image that counts ;) )
Click to expand...

It should not be too hard to take that out. Such a purely defensive force needs some sort of counter and artillery, early planes and the early tank all seem likely.

Still, I would hate for crossbows to go to mortars directly. But also dislike the idea of 2 range grenadiers.


I'm guessing that crossbows turn into grenadiers (which basic range is 1). Grenadiers are strong in the fact that they can deal a blow without taking damage, and may move after attacking, however they're not very good when attacked directly.

Then Grenadier can turn into machineguns, also range of 1. The machine gun is strong on defense and offense. However it's range of 1 doesn't allow you to use it as the spearhead of your assault very easily. They will be a great defense against counterattacks though.

I don't really see the need for mortars personally, if they do come I hope it's not in the WW1 but WW2 era. Otherwise WW1 will have way too many ranged defensive units.
 
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