Deity Culture Victory Guide

True, CV is easier going wide, but at least France has some advantages to OCC.

And, speaking of going wide, city capture is how you fill in all the Art slots. ;)
 
True, CV is easier going wide, but at least France has some advantages to OCC.

And, speaking of going wide, city capture is how you fill in all the Art slots. ;)

Yeah, but I am too lazy to war pre-Rocket-Artillery, and if I want to do that, I'd want a bigger empire than two cities at turn 200. On Deity, at least.

I may try this XB rush thing, though, for a change of pace. I always thought early (non-Mongolia) Deity warfare rushes were impossible, but apparently they are just somewhere between difficult and very very difficult.
 
With an eye towards "Diplomacy is everything" I just tried/won a 2-city CV with Napoleon on Deity, Fractal. May be my first non-Polynesia CV, definitely my first non-Polynesia non-warfare CV! (BTW, I don't see why people say France is so good at CVs. The double cap modifier is pitiful in the grand scheme of things, and chateaus are like a 3rd-rate Head.)

It was a weird map, more like 2 big continents, tiny isthmus connected them. On my side I had a very aggressive Assyria and a wussy Boudicca. I bribed Assyria early and often, and eventually they were happy to declare war for 4gpt. He literally took over half the world, but because I took Order a turn after he did, no early Ideology issues, and because of all the bribes, even after he flipped to Freedom, no war. (Of course, he eventually flipped back to Order, because of his best bud, me!)

It's amazing how encouraging warfare worked so well. It would have been different, probably, if the other side of the world didn't have an Alexander to stir things up -- sometimes, the AI just wants to peacefully develop -- but because of all the war, the culture leader wasn't as dominant as he would be in other games, giving me just enough time to eke out a turn ~330 victory. (Would have been earlier, but when Darius got embargoed .. losing that 40% trade-route bonus hurts! Took me awhile to gain control of the WC and get that repealed.)

ANYway. I learned two valuable things from this:

1) Anything you can do to encourage the AI to beat each other up, go for it. Don't wait for them to mass at your borders -- if you have some $$, toss 20 or 30gpt at guys at the other half of the world to beat up each other, especially if it involves beating up Darius or Alex! (And preferably, Darius vs Alex).
2) A 2-coastal-city game is practical for non-SV wins. Early science is actually probably higher, only around turn 150+ do you level out and start to feel the pain of not maxing out at 1000 science, but you should have just enough GS action to get to Internet early enough.

I've won deity CV on 2 cities a handful of times before, esp. if I have mountain, but you're right: France is not that good :lol: Chateaux are soooooooo selective on which tiles they can be built on (and god forbid you need a river farm there) and they cannot be massed up the same way as Moai

Double theming wonder is ok (it is what makes France's max tourism around 600-700 as opposed to 500 when you're looking at Louvre, Oxford, museum and Hermitage even in the worst of games), problem is both the UA and UI (seriously needs a buff) pale greatly in comparison to Brazil's counterparts and early game up until you are going for the kill with your GMs the UA is practically useless. Brazil at least has the +50% artist generation thing going for it.
 
True, CV is easier going wide, but at least France has some advantages to OCC.

And, speaking of going wide, city capture is how you fill in all the Art slots. ;)

or... occasionally you can peacefully flip a city, take its works, sell it back, wait for it to flip again and take some more works :lol:

That was how for the first time I've ever gotten the theming bonus in SOH on deity.
 
I've won deity CV on 2 cities a handful of times before, esp. if I have mountain, but you're right: France is not that good :lol: Chateaux are soooooooo selective on which tiles they can be built on (and god forbid you need a river farm there) and they cannot be massed up the same way as Moai

Double theming wonder is ok (it is what makes France's max tourism around 600-700 as opposed to 500 when you're looking at Louvre, Oxford, museum and Hermitage even in the worst of games), problem is both the UA and UI (seriously needs a buff) pale greatly in comparison to Brazil's counterparts and early game up until you are going for the kill with your GMs the UA is practically useless. Brazil at least has the +50% artist generation thing going for it.

You can convert farms to chateaus just before internet. Thats when all extra tourism is needed Not much need for extra growth on that point usually.
 
Yeah, I really like France for CV. The UA is not great, but Chateau are pretty nice. They're kind of restrictive in that you can't mass-build them in individual cities, but pretty much every city can get at least a few. France has a higher cap on its ability to add tourism through conquest than Brazil or Poly, which tend to have a limited number of tourism-generating locations on normal maps. France wants to just claim a bunch of land and spam Chateau later on. You can basically play a normal science game with a bit of war and be guaranteed a high tourism at endgame.

Besides, being worse at culture victory than Brazil isn't saying much. Brazil is easy-mode for culture. Using Brazil as the standard for a decent culture civ is like using Babylon or Korea as the standard for a decent science civ.
 
You can convert farms to chateaus just before internet. Thats when all extra tourism is needed Not much need for extra growth on that point usually.

How much more tourism are you getting for, let's say, 15 chateaus, 5 of them in the cap?

3 culture per chateau, with hotel/airport/center = 6 tourism, doubled to 12. 60 tourism in cap, 30 from the other 10. I guess it's not nothing, but 15 chateaus seems like it'd be a lot, esp. if you have coastal cities.
 
You can convert farms to chateaus just before internet. Thats when all extra tourism is needed Not much need for extra growth on that point usually.

hardly... I'm talking about their worth in the early midgame or so. Polynesia has the moai clump + cargo ships combo (by renaissance they easily have the same # of policies unlocked as Poland on an average start) and at least Brazil's UI has the +2 science +2 food from jungle going for it in the meantime. As I said, France is useless until you get to the very endgame, but usually victories are decided long before then.
 
Hello,

We tried this guide with a friend on a 2 vs 2 vs 2 vs 2 (me and my friend vs groups of AI)

It seems absolutely impossible to get pisa before them, alwaays one of them is making like 20 turns before us even with good science (my friend had a great start with Inca on a hill mountain map and I took france)

I read a lot of guides about CV deity and I'm beginning to believe the win is mainly based on sheer luck in deity coop (like we play). I'd like to discuss more in depth about the topic, I can even share my save in order for you to look at.


Thanks a lot :)
 
I find my CV to be easier to achieve with order rather than freedoom.
 
Thanks for your guide :goodjob: Got my first civ 5 victory in the bag. I played on emperor and won diplo the same turn i would have won culture, because internet was finished and i had my drugged and drunken musicians all over the place.(88 faith per turn for most of the game, it was turn 341)

€: If anyone can recommend an equally good guide for a science victory that would be nice.
 
I've tried to use this method several times on Emperor and Immortal, and I just can't deal with the runaways. Even once I have the tech lead, I am beaten to nearly all the wonders except Louvre, and cannot possibly use war to sort them out. It seems to me that CV is by far the most difficult. I just don't know how the top players can win on Immortal and above by any method other than domination. The others are all too difficult for me!
 
I've tried to use this method several times on Emperor and Immortal, and I just can't deal with the runaways. Even once I have the tech lead, I am beaten to nearly all the wonders except Louvre, and cannot possibly use war to sort them out. It seems to me that CV is by far the most difficult. I just don't know how the top players can win on Immortal and above by any method other than domination. The others are all too difficult for me!

You don't really need any wonders to win and culture wonders that are on science tech path should not be hard to get past education if you have the tech lead. If you are picking up tech's that are unnecessary to pad your tech score, then that may be different. Just make sure to start them as soon as you get the tech to make them and forget about ancient wonders and most medieval wonders as well. If you do go for them, look for the start of constructions on all civ's you've met.
 
Thank you to OP and all contributors for fleshing out this excellent thread.

Last night I managed to score a T261 Deity CV and I used many elements of this strategy. I used Sweden to get an early religion (and also with the idea that if things weren't looking good for me late game I could go military), but couldn't spread it because every time I used a prophet on a neutral city or city state, 3 prophets from the other religion spammers surrounded it and flipped it. Any advice for how to do better in this regard, as I feel it would have shaved a lot of turns off the time?

The most important part of my strategy that I'm not sure has been highlighted so far is CS diplomacy. I found that it wasn't enough to concentrate solely on cultural CS. I felt I would need religious AND maritime as well, on order to keep up with tech and growth, and of course amass the necessary post-industrial faith.

Oh, and World Church sucks. Pilgrimage had gone, but I passed up Interfaith Dialogue, which would have been soooo much better. Unless you are going ICS cultural, or have a map where your religion can spread like mad, world church is very underpowered. Oh, and I think that Chichen Itza was what helped me win a CV before the AIs launched their spaceships. Beelining that, delaying growth, and using all workers to chop forests to no doubt beat the AI to it by 1 turn or so was the best choice I made. Combined with the freedom tenet that makes golden ages last longer (or is it aesthetics?) I really powered ahead during those times, and felt the AI palpably 'catching up' in my 'normal' turns.

I am far from a good tradition player, and am generally a bit crap deciding on build orders for peaceful victories, and until recently had no idea how to do it, so my T261 victory proves that this strategy reaaaaally works. If I can do it, anyone can.

Oh, and I had only my starting warrior the whole game, besides gifts from Hanoi
 
Hey Deau and everyone else who practices Deity Cultural Victory!

I just played a game as random civ on a Pangaea and it turned out to be quite interesting.

Spoiler :
Rolled the Celts on a heavy grass/jungle start. Because the production was lousy I decided to go for a peaceful CV as a change of pace.

The beginning was rough - I fell asleep and out of my chair two times while playing peaceful Tradition opener, but I managed to push through and entered the Reneissance via Acoustics on T117. Built Sistine and Uffizi back to back (each took 25 turns to complete - ouch!). That reminded me why I usually don't bother with wonders on Deity... my cap was so behind in infrastructure after that I was forced to run 3 production caravans just to get everything else done before Modern (Grand Temple, Ironworks etc.).

As I hit the Modern Era I added Broadway and rushed Eiffel Tower with :c5faith: GE. I also opened Freedom as advertised in this guide. After I got my :c5production: fixed everything started to line up perfectly. Got all the Wonders I wanted (didn't even try for Leaning Tower - gone before I teched Printing Press) and all my proposals passed. I was actually starting to enjoy a peaceful game for once. But of course that peace wasn't to last...

Attila had been my immediate neighbour from the start, coveted my lands and was generally hostile throughout the game. I tried very hard to show restraint. When a Hunnic spy stole the secrets of Philosophy from Edinburgh on turn 137 I wasn't even mad. When he bombed my land twice with citadels I pretended I didn't notice. But when he tried to sneak a bunch of Settlers past my borders I finally broke and DoW'd him. After I took his units he tried to invade my lands but was so behind in tech it wasn't even funny (Knights vs Machine Guns). I burned one of his cities and made peace. Got a DoF from Attila one turn later. :mischief:

In the mean time the rest of the world was convulsed by war. Egypt had adopted Autocracy and wiped out Carthage :eek:. India and the Huns ganged up on Siam and took him out and tech leader Germany killed his fellow neighbour the Ottomans.

Once the Order civs were all dead I was backstab-denounced by my autocratic "friends". I wasn't worried in the slightest even when they were plotting against me because I had an awesome chain of City State allies that protected me from the outer world.

I was making over 1000 :tourism:/turn after the Internet and World Games and I thought I had the game in the bag. All I needed was a few more turns of ideological pressure and 3 tourism bombs (could only afford 2 :c5faith: GMs and 1 spawned).

...then it happened. I get triple-DoW'd by the Huns, Germany and Egypt. I lose open borders, trade routes and my diplomats are kicked out. Suddenly, my awesome Tourism is only rising slowly. At first this looked like a phony war, but then Ramesess shows up with a ton of Rocket Artillery, rolls Ormus in 2 turns and is at my borders! I've never seen anything like this before, needless to say I was caught with my pants down and my cap was reduced to 0 hit points in a couple of turns. :help:

Because Egypt and Germany were both more or less running away with culture, I had to split my Musisians and sneaked one in egyptian borders. Unfortunately there was no easy access to german borders so I had to take a swim in a water full of submarines and other nasty stuff.

Fortunately the Germans were stuck fighting Buenos Aires long enough for me to bomb them with my last 2 GMs and close the game out on turn 301. Had they broken through earlier and attacked me from the west I would have surely lost my cap...


Screenshots of late game madness:

Spoiler :














TL;DR
Is it normal to get DoW'd across the board in the very late game? Is the AI actually smart and declares war to defend itself from ideological pressure? Or were they just a bunch of phychopaths they usually are?
 
Is it normal to get DoW'd across the board in the very late game? Is the AI actually smart and declares war to defend itself from ideological pressure? Or were they just a bunch of phychopaths they usually are?

I've had it happen to me a bunch of times. I think ideology carries a lot of weight, plus they could 'sense' you were in a winning position, but above all I suspect one of them was the ringleader for the DoW. Assuming Egypt hated you the most (I have no idea if it was them) and you were on a denounce from them, then 1 more denouncement and the third civ has a negative diplo modifier which is half as bad as you capturing their original capital (+40), or twice as bad as a broken promise.

Unless the civ has been seeking another peaceful victory condition and just, well, not gotten there, you can expect the military forces of anyone seeking domination or wanting their hands on your great works/wonders in most games, from my experience. The only game I didn't get DoW'd approaching victory was the one that I won. I think what may have given me the edge is my almost constant stirring up of conflict between the other civs, so that by the end of the game there were no DoFs between them, only between me and a couple of the more reliable ones.
 
Question about CV on Deity:

Since I won with Sweden, I've never produced anywhere near as many GP (not surprising), and I want to check how many is normal/optimal.

My understanding of the strategy outlined in the OP is that you concentrate on growth+science+guilds.

But working guilds, gardens, national epic, etc, doesn't seem to actually make that many great people.

Could someone who is expert in Deity CV outline EXACTLY what I should be doing to make as many great people as possible BEFORE the ones I make with SOH and faith buying just before I win?

TLDR: How do I make as many Great Works as possible in earlier eras?

[EDIT: Also, does anyone have a really great start saved game that could be used for a Brazil CV attempt on Deity? Thanks.]
 
Could someone who is expert in Deity CV outline EXACTLY what I should be doing to make as many great people as possible BEFORE the ones I make with SOH and faith buying just before I win?
I am not an expert, but I am a mathematician. :D

It is impossible to produce more than a certain number of great people due to game's restrictions. At the very maximum, with Pisa, Garden, National Epic, Arts Funding, and Order/Freedom tier-1 tenet, you can get +160% GAWM generation, totaling into a 260% generation, but you still have only 2 slots per guild, while the costs of GAWM increase linearly. It's only natural that you will produce fewer and fewer GAWM in the same number of turns as the game goes on... simply because you have only 2 slots per each guild. Scientists, Merchants, and Engineers actually scale a bit better due to having a total of 4 slots available (for Example, Universities, Schools, Labs, and even wonders) endgame, but even their generation will start tipping off at some point. Guilds do become available earlier, so you should probably just build them right away and try to get all the bonuses.. but you still won't get more than 7-8 naturally spawned GAWM max even in the best of your games.

Also, this guide is slightly outdated due last fall and this fall patches. Still works.
 
I am having real issues with Brazil on Deity CV. The (rare) attempts that go beyond the first 80 turns see me reeeeeeeeeeeeeeally far behind in tech, there's absolutely no way to get any of the mid-game wonders, by the time I catch up, all wonders have been sniped. Is CV possible with Ox and Herm alone to stick great works ? :D
 
This is a nice guide but I wanted to point out a few things.

Well I usually try to win on Deity with Science victories and I have done so many times. I wanted to try other victory conditions on Deity so I tried this guide and I have to say it is much more difficult than the Attila Domination victory guide of Cromagnus.( I am not a great player BTW)

I have been able to win a CV only once with France and that too barely at T326(Assyria was just one spaceship part away from a SV). In that game both my neighbours were peaceful. In another "good" game with Poland the Iroquois just won a SV with me being 6 turns away from being influential on the last Civ(T314).

IMO CV on Deity depends on having at least 2-3 solid cities that would constantly grow. Your capital and your first expo must have lots of food tiles.(Which is very difficult since we are playing peaceful and settling good locations near other CIVs only leads to DoW.) You also need a friend quite early in the game who would send you caravans and trade with you.

Also I think that even by taking Piety you cannot always get a religion. I have missed a religion many times despite taking Piety and having a pantheon.(Not to forget Piety seems to hurt growth a lot by delaying Tradition finisher.)

As for religion it works great if your neighbours do not have their own. Otherwise it seems a waste as they constantly get missionaries and great prophets.(well you do need a good fpt for those musicians though)

I think if we skip Piety and just try for the Stonehenge it would be a better plan.(I have not been successful with this plan though.)

As for wonders nowadays many Civs go aesthetics too often and build the Uffizi. Also Rome/Morocco/England etc often build the Louvre too after getting exploration.

It seems that on Deity science victory is only way to go.

In short this guide is very "luck" dependant. :(
 
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