Changes from WM to MOM

Yoadm · Jan 1, 2011

Hi all,

I havent played FFH for a few months, and was astounded as to the changes Sephi (and others) brought to the WM modmod. So much so that I have a hard time finding explanations for many of the changes, so if anyone could help with the following, I would be very gratefull:

- I noticed I cant see which mana types I have in my inventory and which I do not.

- I couldn't find a spell tree that would tell me which upgrades lead to what, in order for me to know in what to invest (in adepts and mages).

- Furthermore, the spell research tree is barely decipharable. I tried researching light magic, but it keeps going to elemental no matter what I do.

Any ideas?

esvath · Jan 1, 2011

Yoadm said:
Hi all,

I havent played FFH for a few months, and was astounded as to the changes Sephi (and others) brought to the WM modmod. So much so that I have a hard time finding explanations for many of the changes, so if anyone could help with the following, I would be very gratefull:

Hi, yeah there are a lots of change from WM to MoM. Sephi and team are in the middle of compiling a documentation, so never despair :lol:

. For now, I'll try to answer your questions.

Yoadm said:
- I noticed I cant see which mana types I have in my inventory and which I do not.

You can look at city screen OR magic screen. In the city screen, mana resources always listed in your resource tab. In the magic screen, you can see individual effects of each mana. You can deduce how many mana you have using this.

IIRC, Sephi will display mana bar again in the next patch.

Yoadm said:
- I couldn't find a spell tree that would tell me which upgrades lead to what, in order for me to know in what to invest (in adepts and mages).

I'm not sure I understand what you means, but if you want to know what combat auras/spells are availabe (or will be available with some research) just use the Arcane Screen and look at each tech.

Yoadm said:
- Furthermore, the spell research tree is barely decipharable. I tried researching light magic, but it keeps going to elemental no matter what I do.

Researching spell is affected by several things :
Your alignment (Good get bonus in Light magic and malus in Dark, vice versa).
Your mana nodes. Each nodes contribute to Light/Elemental/Dark school. Spell research point you get from buildings, witch huts, vanilla nodes are counted toward 'generic' points. So if you have 9 vanilla nodes and 1 air node, you'll end up with elemental magic 100%.

I hope this help, have fun

tesb · Jan 1, 2011

- Furthermore, the spell research tree is barely decipharable. I tried researching light magic, but it keeps going to elemental no matter what I do.

-you spellschool (dark, elemental or light) is determined by your mana and alignment (just as esvath said)
-your spellsphere (sun, life, nature, ...) can be chosen by cklicking on it, however you can only choose spells from the tier that you are currently in (if you want sun II you need sun I and all other light I spells first)
-some spells (mostly later tiers) are blocked fom being researched this is random (at gamestart) however mana guardians might give you blocked research if you defeat them

the rest should be answered by esvath already

Yoadm · Jan 1, 2011

esvath said:
Hi, yeah there are a lots of change from WM to MoM. Sephi and team are in the middle of compiling a documentation, so never despair . For now, I'll try to answer your questions.

Thanks!

You can look at city screen OR magic screen. In the city screen, mana resources always listed in your resource tab. In the magic screen, you can see individual effects of each mana. You can deduce how many mana you have using this.

IIRC, Sephi will display mana bar again in the next patch.

Ok that I got

.

I'm not sure I understand what you means, but if you want to know what combat auras/spells are availabe (or will be available with some research) just use the Arcane Screen and look at each tech.

What I mean is that there are so many upgrades available for an average adept each time he gains a level, that I get kindoff lost. My question was if there was a spell tree (ie, if you upgrade an adapt to X you can then do Y upgrades), a bit like the promotion tree in the civilopedia. Is there such a thing?

Researching spell is affected by several things :
Your alignment (Good get bonus in Light magic and malus in Dark, vice versa).
Your mana nodes. Each nodes contribute to Light/Elemental/Dark school. Spell research point you get from buildings, witch huts, vanilla nodes are counted toward 'generic' points. So if you have 9 vanilla nodes and 1 air node, you'll end up with elemental magic 100%.

I had 0 nodes for much of the game, but I only advanced in elemental, despite pressing 'research' on light. Any idea why?

Yoadm · Jan 1, 2011

tesb said:
-you spellschool (dark, elemental or light) is determined by your mana and alignment (just as esvath said)
-your spellsphere (sun, life, nature, ...) can be chosen by cklicking on it, however you can only choose spells from the tier that you are currently in (if you want sun II you need sun I and all other light I spells first)
-some spells (mostly later tiers) are blocked fom being researched this is random (at gamestart) however mana guardians might give you blocked research if you defeat them

the rest should be answered by esvath already

What do you mean by spell'sphere' in the context of spell research?

graywarden · Jan 1, 2011

Yoadm said:
What do you mean by spell'sphere' in the context of spell research?

spell research is somewhat automated, and is based on your alignment

Yoadm · Jan 1, 2011

graywarden said:
spell research is somewhat automated, and is based on your alignment

I got that, when he said that the spell 'school' is determined by my alignment. But then he went on to talk about the spell 'sphere' (sun, spirit, etc..), at which point I got confused.

graywarden · Jan 1, 2011

Yoadm said:
I got that, when he said that the spell 'school' is determined by my alignment. But then he went on to talk about the spell 'sphere' (sun, spirit, etc..), at which point I got confused.

those would be the mana "types" that are either produced from nodes or by racial prepondancy (malakim have sun mana naturally for example)

the types of mana also have alignments sun is good, death is evil

all of these equations are being modified in the background, and by these equations are available or not available. game choices can alter some of these equations and allow some things to become available later that may not have been so earlier.

tesb · Jan 1, 2011

spellspheres are the spelltechnolgies, for example
nature I, nature II, nature III and so on belong to the nature spellsphere which is placed in the light magic spell school

an other example:
entropy I, entropy II and so on belong to the entropy spellshpere which belongs to the dark magic spell school.

==> it is just a hirachy:
1. Spellschool (Dark, Light, Elemental)
2. Spellsphere (Nature, Sun, Death, Entropy, ...)
3. The Spell Technology (Sun I, Sun II, ... , Sun V)

spell school (1.) are random and determined by the mana nodes your (palace mana "nodes" count too) and your alignment. for example if you are evil and you palace has a lot of evil mana like death, entropoy, body etc. you will get mostly dark magic

the spell sphere (2. and 3.), i.e. what tech you can research within a given school can be choosen with the restrictions i described above (you can only choose bewteen Spell Technologies of the same tier, for example if you want Sun II you do not only need Sun I, but also Nature I, Enchantment I, Life I, ...)

Yoadm · Jan 1, 2011

tesb said:
spellspheres are the spelltechnolgies, for example
nature I, nature II, nature III and so on belong to the nature spellsphere which is placed in the light magic spell school

an other example:
entropy I, entropy II and so on belong to the entropy spellshpere which belongs to the dark magic spell school.

==> it is just a hirachy:
1. Spellschool (Dark, Light, Elemental)
2. Spellsphere (Nature, Sun, Death, Entropy, ...)
3. The Spell Technology (Sun I, Sun II, ... , Sun V)

Okey, so the only way I can chose which spellschool to chose is by the mana nodes I have and alignment. But I have no choice in chosing a spellsphere?

Furthermore, I'm pretty far into the game with the Amurites, with level 6 mages, and I still can't do much more than maelstrom, which is strange. No fireballs, very few spells. Some auras.

One last thing: How can I see a spell-tree? Ie, I have 5 upgrades waiting for a mage and I wanna know which choice will lead to which other upgrades (spell promotions)?

the spell sphere (2. and 3.), i.e. what tech you can research within a given school can be choosen with the restrictions i described above (you can only choose bewteen Spell Technologies of the same tier, for example if you want Sun II you do not only need Sun I, but also Nature I, Enchantment I, Life I, ...)

For sun II, I need all other level 1 spheres?

tesb · Jan 1, 2011

Okey, so the only way I can chose which spellschool to chose is by the mana nodes I have and alignment

yes

But I have no choice in chosing a spellsphere?

No! you do have a choice. just click on the technology. the only restriction is that need to have all spells of the same tier before you can advance to the next tier.

For sun II, I need all other level 1 spheres?

yes, but only of light magic of course, for example you do not need entropy I to get to sun II.

Furthermore, I'm pretty far into the game with the Amurites, with level 6 mages, and I still can't do much more than maelstrom, which is strange. No fireballs, very few spells. Some auras.

if you have the appropriate technologies reseached, i.e. fire III (i think it was fire III for fireball) then you should be able to cast fireballs. if not then it is a bug and you should upload a savegame.

One last thing: How can I see a spell-tree? Ie, I have 5 upgrades waiting for a mage and I wanna know which choice will lead to which other upgrades (spell promotions)?

pedia -> promotions (scroll down a bit)

here is an overview:
if you want the mage to be a powerful caster, you should choose 'spell power' and 'spell tagets' promotions.
if you want better auras you should choose 'aura stength', 'aura dispersion' or 'aura range' promotions
if you want more effect on your aura you should choose the promotions unlocked by spell research, for example enchanted weapons or valor or whatever you have.

there are no 'spell trees' anymore if you researched the spell your mage can cast it. (depending on what spellschool promotion he has, for example you can't cast fireballs with a mage that has basic dark magic)

Yoadm · Jan 1, 2011

tesb said:
here is an overview:
if you want the mage to be a powerful caster, you should choose 'spell power' and 'spell tagets' promotions.
if you want better auras you should choose 'aura stength', 'aura dispersion' or 'aura range' promotions
if you want more effect on your aura you should choose the promotions unlocked by spell research, for example enchanted weapons or valor or whatever you have.

there are no 'spell trees' anymore if you researched the spell your mage can cast it. (depending on what spellschool promotion he has, for example you can't cast fireballs with a mage that has basic dark magic)

Here's what I meant: In the old WM you had a very long spell tree. If you combined fire and air, you had new spells. You could become master of the elements, etc.. There is absolutely no 'tree' in advancing in castings here:? No spell or promotion choses opens up other promotions/spells?

tesb · Jan 1, 2011

indeed this has been replaced.
if you have basic light magic promotion choosen you can cast every light magic spell when you researched it.
if you have basic dark magic promotion choosen you can cast every dark magic spell when you researched it.
same goes for elemental augmentation.
also weaker versions of the same spell will automaticaly be replaced if you researched stronger versions, for example if you have chain explosion researched you can no longer cast explosion.
casters thus should have only a few spells available to them. this is intended because in the old system you had way too much spells that you woud never have used anyways and which would clutter the screen.

Yoadm · Jan 2, 2011

tesb said:
indeed this has been replaced.
if you have basic light magic promotion choosen you can cast every light magic spell when you researched it.
if you have basic dark magic promotion choosen you can cast every dark magic spell when you researched it.
same goes for elemental augmentation.

Ok, got it. Btw, is there any less than simple way the aura's work? Are they limited to the amount of units, are they automatic or have to be cast?

One more question, if possible (there's so much to learn)! Resources like wood, fur, stone, etc.. how do they work? I know that some are supposed to quicken production of specific units or buildings, but I noticed that when I build those things, the amount of 'resources' I have doesn't fall. Is that possible?

tesb · Jan 2, 2011

Btw, is there any less than simple way the aura's work? Are they limited to the amount of units, are they automatic or have to be cast?

auras are always on. if you have more units then the aura has targets, then the targets are chosen mostly at random. for example if you have an aura with range 2 and targets 10 and inside a range of two tiles there are 12 units, then only 10 of them will get the aura bonus.
You can see the properties of the aura (range, targets and direct effects) when clicking on the aura emitter (i.e. you adept/mage/archmage/summon or what have you), they are listed on the bottom left corner where you can see a bigger version of the unit with all its bonuses.

I know that some are supposed to quicken production of specific units or buildings, but I noticed that when I build those things, the amount of 'resources' I have doesn't fall. Is that possible?

resources are consumed, but it may be possible that your income is higher then your consumption rate thus leaving you still with a net income. i am not sure if they are used per turn or once per production, but my guess is a per turn basis.

you should look at my FAQ sticky i updated it a bit in the mean time

if you still have questions feel free to ask

esvath · Jan 2, 2011

Adding tesb's explanation : a unit can be the target of two blessings and two curses simultaneously. So, if you have a mage with Holy Armor combataura, and another with Elemental Augmentation, a unit standing in both of their range will get two combataura active on it.

Yoadm · Jan 2, 2011

tesb said:
auras are always on. if you have more units then the aura has targets, then the targets are chosen mostly at random. for example if you have an aura with range 2 and targets 10 and inside a range of two tiles there are 12 units, then only 10 of them will get the aura bonus.
You can see the properties of the aura (range, targets and direct effects) when clicking on the aura emitter (i.e. you adept/mage/archmage/summon or what have you), they are listed on the bottom left corner where you can see a bigger version of the unit with all its bonuses.

resources are consumed, but it may be possible that your income is higher then your consumption rate thus leaving you still with a net income. i am not sure if they are used per turn or once per production, but my guess is a per turn basis.

you should look at my FAQ sticky i updated it a bit in the mean time
if you still have questions feel free to ask

Thank's!

Ok two new questions.
What's an aura emitter and how do I see it? I didn't really understand from your overview on it.

Also, howcome there are specific improvements I cant build (like mine or encampment) in specific areas in specific periods?

graywarden · Jan 2, 2011

Yoadm said:
Thank's!

Also, howcome there are specific improvements I cant build (like mine or encampment) in specific areas in specific periods?

Yoadm,

the short answer is population number of improvements already built. the more population a city has the more improvements it can build, you want to approach it with balance, both by city and globally.

you need to check out the forum threads on our new website/forum for more information.

Also here on Civfanatics, there are entire threads dedicated to the new improvement system.

http://www.masterofmana.com/phpBB3/

tesb · Jan 2, 2011

Thank's!

Ok two new questions.
What's an aura emitter and how do I see it? I didn't really understand from your overview on it.

i did not have a better word at hand, with aua emitter i mean any unit/promotion that has an aura. those are mostly adepts/mages/archmages/summons/great generals/ ....
you can see by selecting the unit. if you did then in the bottom left corner should appear a smaller version of that unit with a lot of text beside it, where every bonus that unit has is listed. in this list (at the bottom) you find the aura and its effects

God-Emperor · Jan 2, 2011

You can select which spell tech will be researched for each of light/elemental/dark - it can only be one level past one that you already have. If you have Sun 1 you can click on Sun 2 (currently you have to click in the body of the thing where the icons are shown, not on the title bar) and it will then show a "(researching)" note (I think it is). You can pick one for each of the 3 schools. The selection of which school gets the next thing researched is random but you can see the percentages on the bar by the top of the scree, next to the great people research bar. By doing this, you can beeline through a spell sphere this way by picking the next in that line after each is researched.

The magic related promotions the spellcasters can take are apparently all shown on the Promotion Tree page of the Sevopedia.

It is, however, a bit of a mess for the Dark sphere since it's basic promotion (Dark Blessing) is embedded into the big morass at the top of the page. The reason for that is that it leads to a promotion (Draw Strength) that also requires the Undead promotion, and the Undead promotion is linked with the regular tree elsewhere, so they are intermingled. Channeling I, II, and III are also up in there for similar reasons.

The base Dark Blessing promotion, which gives the Dark sphere's combat aura to the unit, is 4 columns to the right of the basic Combat I promotion, 5th promotion from the top in that column.

The Elemental Augmentation and Holy Armor trees are on their own below that big mess.

There are also standalone trees for the others like Aura Augmentation.

Changes from WM to MOM

Warlord

Apprentice of Erebus

Emperor

Warlord

Warlord

King

Warlord

King

Emperor

Warlord

Emperor

Warlord

Emperor

Warlord

Emperor

Apprentice of Erebus

Warlord

King

Emperor

Deity

Similar threads