City State Diplomacy Mod (Updated)

I had CS enabled but I was pretty sure noone on our continent had met any yet. If theres no way to limit them building until they have met a city state yet then fair enough :)

With them being limited to 2 it shouldnt hurt them too much anyway

I play with random personalities so he could have ended up loving the diplo.
 
That might be it. The limit scales, so you can have 2 messengers, 3 envoys, 4 emissaries, et. al. Keeps the AI from getting spam happy with the units.

Before I had that enabled, Bismarck once built 14 messengers (he was alone on a small continent) and, once he discovered astronomy and found a CS, sent all 14 in a horizontal line towards the CS. I really wanted to listen to 'Ride of the Valkyries' as they sailed across the ocean...

G
 
Slowpoke,

A random event generator for CSs would be nice, though I'm not sure we (as a modding community) have such capacity yet.

Honestly, give it a try. As Alderaan mentioned, spending production instead of gold to befriend CSs makes diplomacy more engaging (because it is more costly) and it frees you up to spend your gold on other, more fun things like buying units, land and buildings.

In any case, my main focus for this mod wasn't to dramatically overhaul the way players interact with CSs (influence is influence, regardless of whence it comes), but rather to make CS diplomacy a geopolitical scenario. In vanilla, invisible ships could cart thousands of gold to CSs around the world in a split-second, allowing players to pick and choose the choicest CSs to befriend. Now, because diplo. units are capture-able civilians and can't enter rival territory (until you get the Foreign Office), players have to work with what's around them, CS wise.

Finally, this mod adds a bit of much-needed micromanagement for pacifistic civs. When CiV first came out I tried out a diplo victory (wanting to play with the new CS mechanic). 5 hours of clicking next turn, next turn, next turn later, I had won. But you know what? Not once did I feel like I was DOING anything. I was simply waiting for things to be done. :)

My rule with modding is, "never make something you yourself don't want to play." Though I am biased towards CSD2, I can't play civ without it. :)

Either way, I respect your opinion Slowpoke and appreciate you letting me know how you feel.

G

Alright, I'll give it a shot :) I did try it a bit previously to check out the mechanics, but not really in any depth. It does seem interesting in that you would have to adapt to how the A.I. deals with city states.

Btw, unless you've already fixed it, I think I've a solution for the problem where it is disadvantageous to actually tech up to the next diplomat type. You could have the diplomats of each era go obsolete with certain techs that the player would not even think of not taking. E.g. ironworking/currency/metallurgy/education. It'd be great if you could have more than one obsolete tech so you can have them go obsolete on each era after the next diplomat type, but I'm not sure if that's possible.

Edit: alright, I've never joined a mod before. Is there an easy way to do it, or do I have to add all the xml/sql/lua files and add them in Actions? Also, while I'm going to use all the mechanics, I'm probably going to have to tweak some values to fit my mod. Is that alright with you?
 
Alright, I'll give it a shot :) I did try it a bit previously to check out the mechanics, but not really in any depth. It does seem interesting in that you would have to adapt to how the A.I. deals with city states.

Btw, unless you've already fixed it, I think I've a solution for the problem where it is disadvantageous to actually tech up to the next diplomat type. You could have the diplomats of each era go obsolete with certain techs that the player would not even think of not taking. E.g. ironworking/currency/metallurgy/education. It'd be great if you could have more than one obsolete tech so you can have them go obsolete on each era after the next diplomat type, but I'm not sure if that's possible.

Edit: alright, I've never joined a mod before. Is there an easy way to do it, or do I have to add all the xml/sql/lua files and add them in Actions? Also, while I'm going to use all the mechanics, I'm probably going to have to tweak some values to fit my mod. Is that alright with you?

I'm not quite sure how to join a mod– you might want to ask jooyo (the CCMAT guy) and see if he knows how.

Feel free to change some values– let me know what you change so that I can consider doing the same for the standalone mod.

Also, unfortunately, you can only set one obseletetech per unit. I think, though, that the techs I chose (Civil Service, Writing, etc.) are fairly essential, so bypassing or skipping them is near impossible.

If you don't mind me asking, what made you change your mind?

G
 
Mainly at first thought it seemed more like a chore to build diplomats, but now that I see how the A.I. reacts, and how it's much more difficult to get city states all around the globe, I like it :)
 
Mainly at first thought it seemed more like a chore to build diplomats, but now that I see how the A.I. reacts, and how it's much more difficult to get city states all around the globe, I like it :)

By 'react,' do you mean how the AI uses the mod or how the AI responds when you take a CS? I have tweaked AI 'protection' over neighboring CSs, so that would explain a more hostile response to a player taking a CS if that's what you're referring to.
 
Any luck, Slowpoke?

Also, how are your games going, Seek and Yanikin?

I'm not going to finalize v5 until I hear from you...

G

I don't have a win. I got sidetracked as I frequently do. I did also set it to a legendary speed. I have had no issues though. I wouldn't hold it on anything I have even if I don't have a win yet. I think it is great with CMAT. It is definitely harder to keep the cs though. I am always fighting to keep up; but think I might not have the greatest cities for it.

Also, I decided against a play through thread. At that speed it is way to slow and tedious. I will just make vids of faster games.
 
Yeah I too don't have a win with diplo alone, I've got so much to do with updating my mod and working on the D-day scenario, that I just don't have the time to finish long games. However, I have tested it with Mega Mod, and it is compatible and the balance with it is good. Talked to Jooyo, and there is no easy way to merge things apparently, he's just a workaholic :D So I'm merely going to highly recommend the mod to players playing my mod until you get to your final version, if you have a final version heh.
 
Yeah I too don't have a win with diplo alone, I've got so much to do with updating my mod and working on the D-day scenario, that I just don't have the time to finish long games. However, I have tested it with Mega Mod, and it is compatible and the balance with it is good. Talked to Jooyo, and there is no easy way to merge things apparently, he's just a workaholic :D So I'm merely going to highly recommend the mod to players playing my mod until you get to your final version, if you have a final version heh.

v5, once out, will probably be as close to 'final' as this mod can be until we get the full SDK. From there, I'll go back to scratch and rewrite a lot of the AI and mission AI to get more interesting CS interactions and to make the diplo units their own unit AI (instead of borrowing from Merchants).

I've run around 10 test games on v5 (using Firetuner) and the game seems balanced. The AI really likes using the WTO, though they occasionally drop their diplo units on an island in the middle of nowhere (logic fail).
 
So I finished my other game. Diplo win, nothing special. Having so many CS's close to me gave me a huge advantage though. You don't always find starts like that. I started another game with your MOD in use. I want to note; while compatible in it doesn't crash, it is not compatible with Procylon's Call to Power Project Mod v7. Like I said no crashes; but I straight up bought a CS when someone else got it. For 4k, Yeah my bank roll was 10k, and I earn 600+ a turn. If your interested I have thread on game here http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=399439

Anyway still like the mod, maybe just if you plan on playing with that other mod once he is done re evaluate how much a cs costs. As in, not you gazebo, but the player. I'm sure it is just 3 lines of code right?
 
So I finished my other game. Diplo win, nothing special. Having so many CS's close to me gave me a huge advantage though. You don't always find starts like that. I started another game with your MOD in use. I want to note; while compatible in it doesn't crash, it is not compatible with Procylon's Call to Power Project Mod v7. Like I said no crashes; but I straight up bought a CS when someone else got it. For 4k, Yeah my bank roll was 10k, and I earn 600+ a turn. If your interested I have thread on game here http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=399439

Anyway still like the mod, maybe just if you plan on playing with that other mod once he is done re evaluate how much a cs costs. As in, not you gazebo, but the player. I'm sure it is just 3 lines of code right?

I could always throw in an upwardly-modded version of the CS gifting that players can enable/disable in a .lua file (a la CCMAT).

Or your way. That's easier for me.

I havent played CTP yet– that amount of gold seems...excessive?
 
CTP needs some tweaks. No one is claiming it is balanced yet. Others claim they can't make money and units like I am; I am only playing on warlord. I set it lower as everyone was saying how hard it was.

If you want to add lua script to have different levels of play know for different mods that works. I don't know how that works. Honestly when I played CCMAT I just hit go. I didn't even realize there was config things etc. Next play with that mod will have to see what I can set up.
 
Hi!

I played a game on emperor level with v4 and CCMAT 11,
and I won a (to me) surprisingly easy culture victory with Songhai and 3 cities,
on a tiny map with 6 civs and 12 CSs.

The 6+12 setting made it interesting, I had nice and livid twists of diplomacy :)
My little nice empire was along a coast, quite safe with a long stretch of mountains paralell to the coast, so I had to take care of the two "ends" only.
On one end I had two CSs that made a nice puffer area to separate the big enemy civ, Babylon.
With the CSs there, I never had to fight B., he fought my CSs whom I fed with units :)
I also managed B. to hate another civ - I have to say, diplomacy was quite manageable!
I also had 1-2 other CSs near my land, but never more than 4 in total...
 
I was getting a crash last night involving the pathfinding of ambassadors. If i manually moved the unit around it was fine, but setting a long pathfinding mission to the CS would cause a ctd. Possibly due to the route being blocked by workers?
 
I was getting a crash last night involving the pathfinding of ambassadors. If i manually moved the unit around it was fine, but setting a long pathfinding mission to the CS would cause a ctd. Possibly due to the route being blocked by workers?

Hmm...yeah, it probably is. Were the ambassadors headed over impassable terrain? It might be a bug with the unit model being on top of a mountain or on ice.

Had you been playing a long time? Might have been a memory error. If you had ambassadors it was definitely late game, so I imagine the AI had a lot of workers. I bet the upcoming patch (which looks at pathfinding woes) might correct this issue if it is related to worker pathfinding.

What size map was it? Also, are you running 32- or 64-bit windows?

I'll look into it tonight if I get a chance– I'll be away from my computer from Wednesday-Sunday (Thanksgiving with the in-laws...).

Has anyone else had this problem?

Hi!

I played a game on emperor level with v4 and CCMAT 11,
and I won a (to me) surprisingly easy culture victory with Songhai and 3 cities,
on a tiny map with 6 civs and 12 CSs.

The 6+12 setting made it interesting, I had nice and livid twists of diplomacy
My little nice empire was along a coast, quite safe with a long stretch of mountains paralell to the coast, so I had to take care of the two "ends" only.
On one end I had two CSs that made a nice puffer area to separate the big enemy civ, Babylon.
With the CSs there, I never had to fight B., he fought my CSs whom I fed with units
I also managed B. to hate another civ - I have to say, diplomacy was quite manageable!
I also had 1-2 other CSs near my land, but never more than 4 in total...

Welcome back V. Soma! Sounds like you had fun. Any complaints or suggestions? v5, with my shiny new WTO wonder, is out and on the prowl- give it a whirl!

Yanikin_Tinkard CTP needs some tweaks. No one is claiming it is balanced yet. Others claim they can't make money and units like I am; I am only playing on warlord. I set it lower as everyone was saying how hard it was.

If you want to add lua script to have different levels of play know for different mods that works. I don't know how that works. Honestly when I played CCMAT I just hit go. I didn't even realize there was config things etc. Next play with that mod will have to see what I can set up.

CTP looks interesting- Procylon is a talented guy. We talked awhile back about incorporating CDS2 into his mod, but I'm not sure what his plans are now.

Changing the gold amount for gifts is easy: simply go into my mod and change the values in the CityStates.xml file (in the Gameplay folder) for GOLD_GIFT_SMALL, GOLD_GIFT_MEDIUM and GOLD_GIFT_LARGE. Set them at 5k, 8k and 12k (or something like that).

CCMAT has a slew of options in the config.lua– most are for enabling disabled mods.
 
Sorry I've been MIA for a little while; I've only gotten to about 300 turns in a game with the dev version released prior to the current one - so no WTO yet...:sad: I was hoping to get some more stuff to comment on before posting, but the only thing I've found worth mentioning was the hammer increase for the forum: I thought it was a little too costly, but I see you have already lowered it! Most importantly, nothing seems broken or unbalanced with this build.:thumbsup:

I do have a couple quick questions for you if you don't mind, however. I'm playing with the latest Balance - Combined mod, which has some interesting new features to CS diplomacy:
Spoiler :
  • :c5citystate:: Capturing gives a one time bonus equal to approximately 15 turns of alliance. I'm working on notifications for these events.
    • Maritime: "Food looted from the Maritime :c5citystate: City-State of <city> allowed your capital to grow by +1 :c5citizen: Citizen.
    • Cultural: "Looted cultural artifacts from the Cultural :c5citystate: City-State of <city> increased your empire's :c5culture: Culture by <culture>"
    • Militaristic: "Your <unit> conscripted citizens from the Militaristic :c5citystate: City-State of <city> into your army." (duplicates capturing unit)
    Goal: make it more worthwhile to conquer CSs (generally a bad idea in vanilla).
and
Spoiler :
Basically, since it's (I believe) impossible to alter the likelihood of the kill city state quest for friendly city-states, I modified everything else available to be more likely.

Spoiler :
Code:
<Update>
  <Where Name="MINOR_CIV_QUEST_WEIGHT_MULTIPLIER_FRIENDLY_ROUTE"/>
  <Set Value="400"/> <!-- 200 -->
</Update>
<Update>
  <Where Name="MINOR_CIV_QUEST_WEIGHT_MULTIPLIER_NEUTRAL_KILL_CITY_STATE"/>
  <Set Value="10"/> <!-- 40 -->
</Update>
<Update>
  <Where Name="MINOR_CIV_QUEST_WEIGHT_MULTIPLIER_MARITIME_ROUTE"/>
  <Set Value="300"/> <!-- 150 -->
</Update>
<Update>
  <Where Name="MINOR_CIV_QUEST_WEIGHT_MULTIPLIER_MARITIME_CONNECT_RESOURCE"/>
  <Set Value="600"/> <!-- 300 -->
</Update>
<Update>
  <Where Name="MINOR_CIV_QUEST_WEIGHT_MULTIPLIER_MARITIME_FIND_PLAYER"/>
  <Set Value="600"/> <!-- 300 -->
</Update>
<Update>
  <Where Name="MINOR_CIV_QUEST_WEIGHT_MULTIPLIER_CULTURED_CONSTRUCT_WONDER"/>
  <Set Value="600"/> <!-- 300 -->
</Update>
<Update>
  <Where Name="MINOR_CIV_QUEST_WEIGHT_MULTIPLIER_CULTURED_GREAT_PERSON"/>
  <Set Value="600"/> <!-- 300 -->
</Update>
*Do you think these adjustments conflict with tweaks you made in CSD? Because I'm only getting quests from CSs who I already have relations with (Diplo unit only - the SP for 20 minimum influence didn't seem to affect this). I will also ask about this in the B-C thread.
*Also, obviously I'm not getting any kill CS quests because you have turned them off - what value should I enter into the XML to turn them back on (I tried 0 but that didn't work), or should I simply delete that line?
[EDIT: Never mind, both of these issues are resolved in the new game I started. 0 is the correct value, and I'm getting missions normally.]

Once I get these issues sorted out I'll test it and let you know if I think they should be incorporated here.
Cheers, keep up the good work:)
 
I like the capturing bonus. While I don't think you want to capture most the time; maybe you do and it would be nice if there is a "slight" positive. I don't think it should be very big though.
 
Hmm...yeah, it probably is. Were the ambassadors headed over impassable terrain? It might be a bug with the unit model being on top of a mountain or on ice.

Had you been playing a long time? Might have been a memory error. If you had ambassadors it was definitely late game, so I imagine the AI had a lot of workers. I bet the upcoming patch (which looks at pathfinding woes) might correct this issue if it is related to worker pathfinding.

What size map was it? Also, are you running 32- or 64-bit windows?

I was in quite a mountainous section of map so possibly. It was late game on a large map. 32 bit windows.
 
Top Bottom