RR11 - Takeshi's castle

And yes, i was wrong
Noooooooo, this can't be true!!! :eek::cry::faint::hide:

Anyway, nocho, good luck and kill a lot of Spaniards :p
It'll be my pleasure. The general war idea is more or less clear to me courtesy your wall of text. But what do we tech after bio? I see something about MS and MT trades, ok, but what do we tech ourselves? On to assembly line for instance?

P.S There is no portuguese version of Civ IV ... Firaxis in all of their wisdom, decided to not make versions of the game in 2 of the six more talked languages in the world ( arab and portuguese ) while slotting italian and german ...
Bigger markets maybe? Anyway, personally don't care too much about the languages, when I got a new comp I accidently installed Civ in spanish and I found it very troublesome to recognize all the units and buildings by their spanish names, in part because of funny translations... Quickly reinstalled it in english to know what I was doing!
 
The fact about techs is that I don't know either... basically I was putting 2 options after Bio:

- Ass. Line

- Physics + Artilery

I can resume the argument here: I'm pretty sure that atleast one european will have Ass. Line in 10 turns ( hence the hurry to slot Justinian out of the war ). My question was in what way we want to tackle the infantries of the next target ( most likely Peter ): with infantry + cannons ( Ass. Line ) or with rifles + artilery + airships and the odd MG ( Physics + Artilery ). I'm slighly more inclined to the second option, just because infantry vs infantry is a pure slog affair ( and because drafted infantry costs 2 pop :D ), but it takes a little longer to tech...

The MT and MS trades are mainly to provide our vassals with means to upgrade their mounted to cavs. Sal has a good collection of Camel archers around and GK has some keshiks still around, so we would benefit of the discounts in upgrades of our vassals to our war effort. Mansa already has MS and I asked him to tech MT, so that will be doable. My only concern was that GK is still in the Middle ages and we will need some turns to get him to rifles even by giving him techs.

On the language: I don't care much either. Just pointing the obvious ... and I seriously doubt that Brazil alone is not more worth as a market than Italy for Firaxis :D But if all the issues with civ IV were so undamaging as that we would be in a very good condition :D
 
Decided to go ahead and play, but time has ran out for a decent report. So I'm sorry, but you'll have to do this time with some short notes without pictures.

We captured 5 cities from the Byzantines up until Constantinople inclusive. Justinian will finally cap now, or alternatively we take his last two cities as well.

Up until the last turn no sign of Spanish forces, but she just appeared with something half decent two tiles away from Bagdad. Seems she detoured through Russia or something. We have decent units in Bagdad, but more can be taken from other former Byzantine cities if we feel the need. The bulk of our forces are at Constantinople, but we'd have to cap Just now to move them near Bagdad, but don't think it will be necessary.

Rather aimlessly built a lot of units everywhere, including more navy. Outside of Hanoi we have a good navy with cannons and rifles at our disposition. Wasn't sure if they were meant for something specific (as Hanoi already seemed to be a vantage point) like sailing of to the Americas, or alternatively to Europe. We could do that now as we have a canal next to Jerusalem.

Nothing much else happened, if it weren't for Peter showing his guts demanding railroad (dismissed). Oh, an AP resolution came up to stop the war against Justinian, plainly said no, but was kind of lucky our vassals defied. :D They really can be useful sometimes. ;)

Finished bio and physics, we're now half way through artillery.

Probably didn't play optimally, but well, too many cities now to keep very concentrated. :mischief: I was wondering about those national wonders we can still build (IW, OU, FP, NE)... Still ignored them.

I think we're pretty much in the driving seat obviously, everything eventually will be crushed under our big numbers.
 

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Ok, quick skim on the save ...

I think that we should cap Justinian now and give him back Constantinople and Trezibond ... to hald the cultural pressure back in the Black sea.

It looks that peter still doesn't have infantry ... if we move fast we can still catch him with his pants down ( hopefully his stack is still chilling out in Damascus ).

Techwise ... well, Ass. Line is probably the best thing after Artilery...

Well, as thy asked a skip, Brian is UP.
 
Ok I've got it. I'll post a plan tomorrow, though I suspect it'll be along the lines of Cap Justy, beat up Izzy stack, go to America, beat up the natives/beat up Peter.
 
Ok had a look at the save and first of all the Nat wonders:
Ironworks is good either in Hanoi (to get over 200hpt without extras), or Angkor (our next best hammer city) for a second mega production. I would suggest West Point in the city we don't put IW.
Benares is being set up for Oxford, I believe and I'd put it there anyway.
FPalace is being left for the Americas, otherwise the best place is probably Jerusalem.

I concur on Peter not having infantry, which would probably make him a juicy target in three turns, though our forces are not positioned at all well. It's doable but would take a few turns repositioning.
As regards Justy I'd rather kill him. Constantinople is a juicy town, but if we cap Justy (for 40g + 1gpt at the moment) it will be in perma revolt.We should be able to hold Athens easily enough and Dyrrachion isn't too bad though if it's empty of buildings it can be razed to put up a cultural firewall.
Or navy is holding up well, if we want I could probably swing it off to America as is. Monty will have his usual 3,441935739257 Jaguars, but hey we've got rifles and cannons, they should hold.

Izzy's stack: I'll hold off on hitting them this turn. It should move down to 1N of Baghdad, where I can cannon them a bit (a few sucides) before mopping up. She's not talking now so we'll have to wait and see what peace she'll offer after being violated.

As regards tech I'd suggest Arty>Ass Line>Combustion during my set I should get the first two (though maybe not).
 
Sounds fine to me though I'd keep Just alive and regift the cities rolo mentioned. He might help out with the European campaigns. Not feeling very strongly about it though.

Look for possible trades for AL and combustion, both are around and/or being researched right now. The National Wonder distribution sounds fine to me. FP in Americas makes a lot of sense indeed.
 
I usually don't build IW in the HE city. For one, the HE city should be focused almost exclusively on units. Plus, IW has diminishing returns in the HE city. IW may be better in another coastal town with good hammers. Possibly a IW/Maoi deal.

I thought we were building Wall in Benares. Not sure what is best for Ox. Seoul seemed like a decent option at one point.

Not sure if West Point is really needed. If we pop a GE we could just rush it in Hanoi, but I would not worry about it other wise.

edit: Looked at the save

Yeah, forgot about Jerusalem. Perfect place for Wall even though it is a bit vulnerable. Benares is fine for Ox - we can cottage up the city after Ox is in.

I would build IW in Tanjore. With Maoi this city will have decent hammers and it's a nice central location for a Naval unit pump.

I WOULD not give back any Byz cities. Constantinople is a keeper with all those wonders and giving back Trebizond and Attallia would further cultural issues on that city. With Just as a vassal this will ease some pressure. We just need to make sure we station sufficient forces in Constantinople to reduce revolt risk. Good place to station forces before our attack on Europe and Byz little empire provides a nice buffer.
 
AFAIK Wall St. is already in Benares. That's why I'm saying Oxford there too., for the cash boosted research.

As regards a coastal IW, I think Heian-Kyo, our former capital is the strongest. Angkor could go the IW/Wespoint route still though for land units, with Hanoi producing navy/land units.

The main reason why I'm for elimination of Justy, is that Constantinople is almost impossible to keep at this stage, it will be surrounded in Byz culture for a long time, tying down a lot of units in peace, and revolting every 10 turns in war. It's either kill Justy or give back Constantinople.

Edit: rechecked save, Wall St. is definitely in Benares.
 
I usually wouldn't like Wall in Ox, but I don't think it matters much this game. Plus, Benares is in a nice safe location.

BS - We will get an initial buffer on Constantinople once Justy caps. Vassal culture pressure is not near as bad but revolts can happen. All we have to do is station several units in Nople and it should be fine. Just check the revolt risk and adjust the number of units until the risk is below 1% or nil. I'd rather be facing a vassals culture than a non-vassals.

I think we probably should have built Maoi in Heian-Kyo. I had my eye on Maoi/IW there earlier. The hammers there are pretty marginal actually. Tanjore would be better, but do what you feel is best. Turfan is not bad either, but not coastal.
 
Ok, on the cities to give:

My point on giving Constantinople and Trezibond back after capping Justinian now is to make the war faster. Besides the fact that it will take some turns to take the remaining cities, the cultural pressure on the recently captured cities would delay our advance ( we don't have OB with Charlie, so we would basically be unable to attack Kiev directly if we keep Constantinople ... and the situation is similar in the Caucasus area ). The main point would be keeping a attack vector directly to Kiev , a thing we will not have if we erase Justinian. It is not a big point , so do as you feel better.

Wall street is in Benares ... also double shrine and with the infra already in place ... Moai would be good either in Heian-Kyo or in the southern tip of India. IW ... dunno, but I would prefer to put NP in Turfan and IW/NP is a waste.
Or navy is holding up well, if we want I could probably swing it off to America as is. Monty will have his usual 3,441935739257 Jaguars, but hey we've got rifles and cannons, they should hold.
Well, civ IV does not give a so overwhelming advantage to superior tech units as other Civ titles *cough*Civ V*cough* , and monty sometimes actually does a number with his units ... but he was in war with HC IIRC ( I let him in hands full, and I don't see what other civ he could be targetting ... but it is monty :p ), so his numbers should be somewhat trimmed.
 
Update: I'll have to carry over to tomorrow. I kind of forgot to go to sleep last night and cannot focus on anything right now.

Sorry for the delay.
 
Ok the save is played. It was interesting to say the least.

I'm not going to give a full turn by turn report. After 5 turns I had filled up 4 pages of build orders and gave up in disgust.

First of all I took peace with Justinian for:
Spoiler :


After that I give him back Istanbul and Trebizond, keeping the army in Istanbul.

As expected the Izzy stack heads 1N of Baghdad, I cannon it losing 3 and hit it with rifles from Bag, Jerusalem & Attalia losing 1. on the IT Sally kills the rest.

A few turns later Justy comes in handy with the following trade:
Spoiler :

I know it's lopsided beaker wise, but it saves us Ass line and gives two techs that Justy can now skip.

As regards war, there was much talk of it across the seas with both Huayna and Monty wanting our "assistance":
Spoiler :


But I said no as a certain Russian was annoying me with his medals and sashes and his sneering contempt for the "little yellow men of the east" (war dec T135):
Spoiler :

Unfortunately as well as bringing in his vassal, Raggy, it also brought in the Burger King and Lois as well. They're nibbling away at Kiev, and due to a couple of bad dice rolls in the IT it could be lost next turn.

The war situation:
Well our main stack hit Kiev on turn 136:
Spoiler :

And a secondary (cannon light) stack hit Anasazi a few turns later (138):
Spoiler :

Our main stack is on the bank of the Moscva waiting to take the city:
Spoiler :


I'd probably stop here for a turn or two if only to do some upgrading, so we can acutually push on.

The naval stack outside Hanoi has been slowly growing now with the addition of both Artillery and Infantry, and should be ready to go to the West to do some kicking whenevery you want.

Techs went Arty>Combustion. I traded Ass Line and Mil Trad:
Spoiler :

and gave away Rifling to Ghengis because of:
Spoiler :

He lost the city but the presence of rifles seem to have deterred the BK as the stack hasn't been seen since.


Other than that I put Oxford in Benares, IW in Angkor (both not built), Nat Park in Turfan, where I'm now building spec buildings and Westpoint nowhere yet.

I'm plopping down factories in a lot of the secondary production cities (staggered to keep production going) and due to the war have almost completely forgotten about drafting Lin'an (just twice).

I've a feeling that going for Russia may have been a mistake (due to the declarations). Peter himself is a paper tiger, but BK and Lois seem to be a bit more dangerous. We won't lose because of it but we may have to retrench and hit back later.

Sorry again for the lateness of the game, and sorry for the scrappiness of the report (late game takes too long with the 50 build choices per turn).
 

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I think my biggest mistake was not reinforcing Kiev Stronger. If we could rush some Arty's to Anasazi, I think our main stack should go to W.Europe via Petrograd to take out BK and Lois. While advanced and seriously hurting Kiev, they don't have the land to actually stand up to us.
 
Good job, BS. Don't forget about auto-queuing builds. For instance, ALT+Shift+Click on Infantry and Arty will alternate building these units in Hanoi indefinitely. Eases the micro late game. You can also just use Shift+Click to queue up a bunch of items.

We can also set waypoints.

Thoughts:

1) We really need to upgrade a lot of units. Too many samurais

2) We could possibly gift some units to Mongolia to help out

3) I'd like to take Etruscan to kick HRE out of our area

4) I think most cities should focus on units at the moment
 
I don't like Alt click, as sometimes it leaves you caught out if something unexpected happens (and reporting early game is a witch when using it). Though in Hanoi that's ok.

As regards waypoints I haven't a clue on setting them up.

Etruscan could be a tough nut to crack especially if that stack of Germany's (I saw it outside Ghengiz's second city when looking over after the report was done) is representative of it's garrison.

I agree on the units. I've been pumping them out steadily (just stopping for health buildings and factories in the good cities) and they'll be quicker next set.
 
Waypoints > click on a city and Shift>Right Click on the spot you want them to rally too. A yellow circle appears.

Yeah, I was mainly referring to Hanoi and secondary unit pumps for auto queues. Hanoi does need a factory though.
 
Ok, the fact that the french and the germans came after us was a possibility I obviously have took too lightly, but I don't think we need to stop the war ... atleast with Peter. But we will have surely to put the frenchies and the germans out of the war to make peter our vassal ( the cursed vassaling mechanics all over again ... ). So, the word is to contain the French and the germans until they are willing to make some kind of peace deal and continue to work on the Russians. That implies doing peace with the Spanish as well ...

I guess that is my 5$ for now : hold the pressure until we can pull everyone out of the war except peter and then vassal him. Then drop the bomb on everyone :D

Techwise ... well, finishing flight is obviously a go ;) ... then the road to Industrialism for a couple of shiny armors. Human waves are so 1910 :p

On strategy... I'm ambivalent about doing a great effort to conquer Etruscan. First , it is a german city and it will not contribute in anything to make peter cap ( obviously it will have some consequence in making Charlie to acept peace ), the terrain is bad and not railroaded and it is out of our general direction of expansion. If we want to hit the germans , then going to the Caucasus and capture Balanjar and Sarkel seems a better idea IMHO ... That is not to say, OFC that we should let Charlie do mincemeat out of GK.

We should continue pulling units out of the GT city ... that city hitting 18 pop is of no use for us.

So, in resume: hold the ground, strike peter, take the rest out of the war, vassal peter, then make the final showdown. If needed drop the bomb ... or better said ,a lot of bombs :p
 
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