SANCTA diplomacy

From SANCTA:

Namaste Saturn,

Our chariot Gelderlander has found your lands, bearing the promised trade items of wheat and fish (as well as ways to keep the fish from smelling too much on the trip). He is also carrying this letter of thanks for the silver, it has let us dedicate more troops to the war and keep our larger cities happy.

Gelderlander sustained damage from various barbarians in the wilderness (the black flagged ones, not the white devils the Ninja's war with to the south) and request a boon of lodging to heal our weary bones (to say nothing of fixing the suspension in the chariots - boy our butts hurt).

May we enter the city of Rhea and spend a few nights in your fine hostels?

SANCTA

Also a brief chat (note that SANCTA are building the Great Lighthouse, and were originally thinking about using a GE to get the Pyramids):
Spoiler :
Memphus says:
let me know when you wake up...crazy crazy idea we just had
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
still up... just finished ALC write-up, heading to bed in a minute
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
what's the idea?
Memphus says:
we use our GE (that was dedicated to pyramids)
Memphus says:
to bulb machinery
Memphus says:
right after feud you guys go guilds
Memphus says:
we get math & HBR
Memphus says:
Guilds in however fast you guys can tech it! from the turn you get fued!
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
Hmm, interesting
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
Would rely on us being able to build a LOT of Knights very quickly though
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
with our poor production, I'm not sure if that'd happen
Memphus says:
alot? no one else even feud....2-3 kinghts would cut through anyone
Memphus says:
it is way crazy out there though. just something to think about...
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
true, it would do some serious damage
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yeah, good to think about
Memphus says:
we have 4 turns till our GE (and 4 till you get feud) so time to think about it.
 
Some preliminary thoughts about the suggestion:
* The idea is probably to use Knights in offensive war? Who would we attack? Remember that we've non-agression pact with Cavs at minimum until turn 134 and we would had to cancel it turn 114
* We'll need 15-20 turns to Finish Guilds. This is quite a long time, where others could easily research e.g. Feudalism or something else useful for protection
* We would basically had to whip+upgrade the Knights to get them early enough, This surely cripples our economy, but maybe we could get ~6-7 Knights ready in few turns. This with the support of Longbows probably enables taking/razing of 1-2 cities, before the opponent has sufficient number of Spears or other units to counter us.

All in all I'm a bit sceptic. At least we should discuss with SANCTA who would be target/targets? Are we both aiming at Kazs? Would that make sense to us?
 
Yeah, I don't think that Knights are going to fare well against Longbows either. They're not that good, and as soon as Cav gets any counter units then we're screwed.

By the way, we don't have to give Cav their 20 turns notice, although that'd be a bit sneaky.

I get the feeling overall that we'd be better off with SANCTA getting the Pyramids.
 
Two quick chats with SANCTA:

Spoiler :
Krill says:
HI mate.
Krill says:
Just a quick update on the war
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
hi
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
busy at the moment
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
but go ahead
Krill says:
cool np, I only had 2 things to say
Krill says:
Kaz have a third chariot in the area, but after moving forward they got a little scared after seeing our 3 axes, and a barb axe cutting off all routes to the barb city
Krill says:
athe other thing is that the barbs in that area really are going insane, in the past turn a total of 2 barb axes and 1 barb warrior have turned up, so we're currently re-evaluating our strategy.
Krill says:
that was all, just wanted to keep you in the loop, and good luck with your work.
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
ok, thanks
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
will pass that on


Spoiler :
Memphus says:
morning. MS & Kaz have construction.
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
hmm, okay
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
good to know
Memphus says:
maybe you can trade to MS MC & Currency for Math Calendar and Construction? (or maybe we can if they ever talked)
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yeah, maybe
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
I have my doubts, but we can try I suppose
Memphus says:
if we got those 3 techs then it justifies going for guilds, with us bulbing machinery
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
oh yeah, about that - many of us are thinking that it's probably better to get the Pyramids
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
Knights won't fare well against Longbows, which Kaz/Cav will have before our Knights can get to them
Memphus says:
ok cool good to know!
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
(probably)
Memphus says:
yeah it would have to quick without a doubt. it is definetly a small a window
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yeah
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
anyway, got to head to bed now sorry... work in the morning.
Memphus says:
and not getting pyramids cripples our research
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yeah
Memphus says:
no problem man have a good night!
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
better to plan for the long term
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
ok, thanks
Memphus says:
yup!
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
have a good day
Memphus says:
you too!
 
Sent a message to SANCTA.

Hi SANCTA,

Sorry for the delay in our reply. As to your question - absolutely, you're always welcome in our lands. ;)

We recently recieved a message from Kaz:

Greetings Lord Parkin of Saturn,

We apologize for our delay in responding to your latest message but the war has taken much of our time. We understand your desire to remain at peace with the world. We have the same desire but this i not possible for us right now. SANCTA began the war and are doing their best to bully the great nation of Kazakhstan. We know that the best way to deal with a bully is to stand up to him and that is what we intend to do.

We noticed you recently conducted a few trades with SANCTA. While we do not like to see our enemy benefiting from these trades we consider you to be our friend and we are happy that you have gained. We do ask that in the future you consider trading with us before SANCTA. We would certainly make any such trades worth your while. We hope our past deals with you have shown our trustworthiness. We have placed our trust in you though you should know that SANCTA has tried to undermine this trust. We are including a copy of their declaration of war which also states that your team will not be trading feudalism to us. We do not believe their lies but thought it best to have them in the open. Your note indicated you would have feudalism around turn 102. Is this still an accurate estimate?

SANCTA's last message to us is included in the spoiler.

donsig of Kazakhstan

Of course, we are not fooled by these claims that Kaz "considers us their friend" and the like. We are preparing our response, and will send it in a few days. We'll keep you updated with what's happening. :)

Kind regards,
Lord Parkin of Saturn
 
Chat with Krill of SANCTA:

Spoiler :
Krill says:
Hi mate, got a moment?
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
sure thing
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
just traded for Currency with Memphus
Krill says:
(sorry to keep on bugging you every day btw)
Krill says:
I saw in civstats
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
nah, it's ok
Krill says:
I was wondering whether Memphus talked you about diplomacy sometime in the last 4 hours?
Krill says:
keeping you updated, and everything
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
hmm, not diplomacy
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
we traded Currency though
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
he seemed in a rush
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
work or something
Krill says:
yeah, he was busy last night. I'll let him explain his life though.
Krill says:
OK, we approached MS and got the usual silent treatment in the end. The interesting thing was that Cav were interested in currency.
Krill says:
Basically 3 deals go proposed:
currency for maths+calendar
MC for maths+construction (they were reluctant to trade construction) and
currency and MC for maths+calendar+construction.

Krill says:
we haven't heard back yet though...
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
hmm, ok
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
would be good news if one of those could go through
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
I'd be cautious about trading them MC, since that leaves them and Kaz a step away from Macemen
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
but good that they're willing to talk anyway
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
I'd prioritize CS over any of their other techs
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
but not sure if they'll do that
Krill says:
Well
Krill says:
CS got traded to MS this turn (for construction)
Krill says:
so if you can make 105 base beakers (after trade routes) you could get CS in 7 turns
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
hmm, true
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
but we'd still be behind by Machinery
Krill says:
longbows behind walls
Krill says:
War eles (which are 10 hammers cheaper than maces/unit)
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yeah, but still not ideal
Krill says:
and HA to shred cats with flanking
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
offensive defense is necessary
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
true, Eles would help
Krill says:
If your opponent is attacking with maces, cats and HA...
Krill says:
WE are better than maces
Krill says:
you get teh same odss on the maces
Krill says:
and better odds against the HA
Krill says:
the only loss is no defensive bonus
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yeah
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
true
Krill says:
So, having informed Saturn of those proposed deals, is Saturn unwilling to go ahead with any of them?
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
I don't think we'd be against any of them, but I'll ask my team
Krill says:
cool, thank you
Krill says:
when we ran the numbers on the cost/benefit...each deal gets progressively better for Cav on a beaker:beaker ratio. TBH I'd be a bit suprised if they don't go for deal 3, considering the amount of cities Cav has. Currency is worth 18 commerce/turn to them...

Basically, they want to know what we think about these three deals that Cav has offered them:

Basically 3 deals go proposed:
currency for maths+calendar
MC for maths+construction (they were reluctant to trade construction) and
currency and MC for maths+calendar+construction.
 
I don't like any of the 3 deals.

We give team Cav 18 commerce per turn if they get Currency and they become close to macemen once they get Metal Casting. We get construction (are we really going to be building catapults anytime soon?), we get calendar (that would be nice, but we have other sources of happiness right now, such as hereditary rule), and mathematics (also nice, but a tech we can research in a few turns now).
 
I'm cautious about the deals too. In particular I don't think we should give MC to Cav. It just puts them too close to Macemen.
 
I discussed with Krill concerning their research and what should we research next. End result SANCTA is collecting gold and I set beaker overflow to HBR. Not optimal to us, but maybe to our alliance.

Spoiler :

plako says:
hi

Krill says:
hi mate

plako says:
Feudalism is ready and I realised that I don't know what you're researching

Krill says:
We're currently saving gold.

plako says:
ok

Krill says:
We need top save 95 gold to upgrade 1 archer to a longbow
we currently have 42 gold
so it might take up to 3 turns to save the required gold
after that we were planning on sending you gold so you can tech at 100% science
As to what to research...

plako says:
We'll need also 1 0% round

Krill says:
Cav currently considering several deals that gets us maths (and at least 1 of calendar and construction)

plako says:
Machinery, HBR, Philosophy are possible
Maths would take only 2 turns
(well 3 with gold collecting round)

Krill says:
Well...
Both of us are going to need HBR for HA to flank cats and for war eles
but I know we both want maths

plako says:
HBR is 3-4 turns

Krill says:
that's tech depreciation for you

plako says:
If Maths trade doesn't work we could consider switching
to research it
Had to go now. I'll suggest HBR to the team.

Krill says:
sorry was AFK. Have food poisoning, and the call came...

plako says:
Sorry to hear

Krill says:
The best thing to do is just set research to HBR, and save gold next turn.
Make a decision at teh start of t101.

plako says:
yes. Sounds ok. I'm logging in now. For some reason pitboss connection was lost

Krill says:
cya then

plako says:
bye

 
HBR is okay, although we really need to get Maths *soon*.
 
Another chat with SANCTA.

Spoiler :
Krill says:
Hi mate, got a moment?
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
hi
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
sure
Krill says:
Couple of things, congrats on finishing fuedalism
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
cheers
Krill says:
we look forward to the diplomatic fireworks next turn
Krill says:
We killed the third Kaz chariot this turn
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
lol, yeah
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
cool
Krill says:
Niklas made Memphus mad and he took a 50/50
Memphus says:

Krill says:
luckily Karma exists
Krill says:
sotrta
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
hehe
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
ok
Memphus says:
Lord before I end turn do you need our chariot to mvoe anywhere for supprt?
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
might need some help up near Iapetus soon
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
if there are any more barbs around
Memphus says:
Ok so heal now? (3 out of 4 str) or move?
Memphus says:
you tell me which way!
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
well, where is he at the moment?
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
probably heal now
Memphus says:
Rhea
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
ah, ok
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
no sense in him dying due to an unexpected barb attack
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
so heal
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:

Memphus says:
ok cool!
Memphus says:
just if you need him in any direction after your next turn pm me or something
Memphus says:
ending turn, ill let krill get back to his info
Krill says:
Basically we've had 2 chats with niklas
Krill says:
who being the insufferable douche that he is annoyed Memphus, but has alluded to something slightly interesting
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
oh?
Krill says:
Cav stated that they weren't far from currency themselves (despite just finishing CS and revolting to bureacracy), and basically said they'd only offer maths for it
Krill says:
Which means 1 of 3 things
Krill says:
Either MS/Kaz are researching currency and are about to trade it to kaz and Cav (and I'd bet MS after last turn). DS was in the game, and right after the offer was made by Memphus, Niklas jumped in the game, and then DS made that public post
Krill says:
another is that they aren't actually close to currency; they offered maths because they "know" you are getting maths from Kaz for fuedalism (and they stated they are getting fued from Kaz), and hence that as we can get maths from you, they might as well sell it to us for something useful.
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yeah
Krill says:
the third thing is a little weirder.
Krill says:
Kaz have gone for the GL
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
Lib or Lighthouse?
Krill says:
lib
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
ok
Krill says:
got lit on, what, t90?
Memphus says:
i bet they finish it in the next 3 turns
Krill says:
(I disagree...I don;t think they have the production)
Krill says:
I'd say t105
Krill says:
but that is beside the point
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
ok
Krill says:
They (the trio) are missing HBR (which is a 2 turn tech), MC, paper, drama (which Cav can't research) philo, compass, music (can't research).
Krill says:
oh, and theology
Krill says:
THe weird thing is, even with Cavs now massive research rate
Krill says:
they can't be aiming to go striaght for lib
Krill says:
kaz are getting hte GL so they can bulb their way there
Krill says:
And Kaz also have the top branch of the tech tree, and Cav won;t duplicate research
Krill says:
Which leaves the bottom part of the branch to research; Cav are probably going for maces and their UU.
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
hmm, ok
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yeah, that makes sense
Memphus says:
*also following along* drinking waiting for krill to make a point...
Krill says:
Basically, the first war you are going to get involved in is a draft war
Krill says:
but it isn;t all that far off
Krill says:
Back of the envelope calculations would say it's something like 40 turns away
Krill says:
if that.
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yep
Memphus says:
I think I see Krill's point here.
Memphus says:
We give you $$ to power through math so someone can trade for Construction / Calendar (or maybe CS)
Memphus says:
then you gift us a little $$ back so we can get a longbow upgrade in the front line war vs. Kaz.
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yeah, sounds ok
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
just checked barb situation... extremely bad for us
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
we'll probably lose Iapetus, because the turn player forgot to switch builds this turn
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
2 Axes 2 turns away
Memphus says:

Memphus says:
can that chariot get there?
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
in Rhea? No, not in time
Memphus says:
shoot
Memphus says:
any way to whip or anything?
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
no, not enough time
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
because the turn player forgot to switch
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
so next turn, they'll be right next to the city, and we'll need a 2 pop whip at size 2
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
I really wish he hadn't forgotten to switch to an Archer, that will probably cost us the city
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
guess we can't reload for that
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
oh well
Krill says:
umm
Krill says:
it's size 2
Krill says:
so it won;t autoraze, right?
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
probably not
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
but still a massive pain in the ass
Memphus says:
well can i dispatch the chariot?
Memphus says:
if I can capture it we can gift it back!
Memphus says:
(not downplayignthe pain in the ass you are right)
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yeah
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
we can probably capture it back
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
but thanks, any help appreciated
Memphus says:
like i said that chariot is pretty much yours you say jump i say how far!
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
heh
Krill says:
That sucks about the barbs. Just hope it doesn't raze...
Krill says:
but, to stuff that we can affect right now...
Krill says:
memphus is right that Maths next is probably the right move and we canforward you to gold to keep you researching to get it asap
Krill says:
After that might need 1 turn of saving gold, but CS could be researched pretty quickly, and by then our cities should be fully grown and capable of 200bpt or so (depending on the needs for units and whatnot)
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
so maths instead of HBR?
Krill says:
We killed the last kaz chariot and it looks clear
Krill says:
the barb city should be ours next turn
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
ok, nice
Krill says:
the only thing is gold to upgrade the archer, and we should be OK for a while
Krill says:
Kaz hasn't really been building units...prepping for newer, stronger units I would imagine...
Memphus says:
with the forges they don't have
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
heh
Krill says:
We can probably get HBR...but to play it safe we'll be research polytheism for a short while at 0 tech, and reevaluate in a few turns (t103 I think would be the turn to start research into CS).
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
ok
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
so just to confirm: Saturn switches research to Maths next turn? (Just triple checking I'm not misunderstanding anything.)
Krill says:
yup
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
ok, cool
Krill says:
if you agree with that.
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
that works out fine
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
Maths is our #1 priority right now anyway
Memphus says:
sweet and if you need $$ to stay at 100% for it just ask for the requried gold!
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
righto, will do

Basically, they've asked us to research Maths instead of HBR. So we should switch research before the end of next turn. :)

They'll supply us with gold to keep research at 100% - we just have to ask for it.
 
Chat with Krill about MS deal for CS.

Spoiler :
Krill says:
Yo dude
Krill says:
got the email
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
hi
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
ah, cool
Krill says:
Most pertinent question to us is "How important is bureacracy to you guys?"
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
fairly important
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
our capital's small, but uses a lot of cottages/mines
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
and we'd grow it quickly
Krill says:
Got a lighthouse there?
Krill says:
well, you;d get one quickly anyway
Krill says:
as org
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
actually I don't think so
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yeah
Krill says:
Do you know how soon you could get bureacracy?
Krill says:
ie this turn, next turn?
Krill says:
Speaking for myself, and not SANCTA here...
Krill says:
You considered using this opening to try to negotiate for future tech deals?
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
not sure, MS didn't specify a time (and said it wasn't yet confirmed for them)
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
could be an idea, yeah
Krill says:
welcome back
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
heh, yeah, stupid internet connection
Krill says:
The thing is...CS is worth 725 base beakers
Krill says:
Fued is worth 778
Krill says:
taking into account optional prerequiasite boni and the fact that 2 civs klnow fued but 3 know CS
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
hmm, I see
Krill says:
but the fact that MS asked about archery is interesting..
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yeah
Krill says:
because that suggests that they aren;t going to get archery off Kaz
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
or maybe he just forgot they were, amidst the disorganization
Krill says:
That wouldn;t suprise me.
Krill says:
I don;t think SANCTA would be against the trade. Obviously we'd want a shortwhile to consider it though, but we have the barb city...and 8 turns extra with bureacracy is a substantial number
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yaeh
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
*yeah
Krill says:
Although, personally I'd still want to send them a letter asking them about future tech deals and saying "We're considering your proposal"
Krill says:
(SANCTA is not in dire need of CS though; waiting until t110 is considered...acceptable, I suppose, so your need is an overriding factor)
Krill says:
one thing to consider though...
Krill says:
if they don;t have to tech fuedalism, they are more likely to go for machinery and then optics...both of us are going to have to be very careful iof getting boated
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yeah
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
especially from Cav
Krill says:
Well, that's the only team that realistically can boat.
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yeah
Krill says:
Could be cheeky...
Krill says:
could request Calendar.
Krill says:
And some gold
Krill says:
*offer some gold
Krill says:
we'd help you with the gold
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
hmm
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
could be an idea
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
probably wouldn't work though
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
they'll be looking at equivalent costs
Krill says:
*shrug* give them the equivalent beaker costs, with teh adjusted figures
Krill says:
I already quoted them
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yeah
Krill says:
Calendar is worth a base 369 base beakers. Half that in gold is 185 gold
Krill says:
Between the two of us we could have that by the end of our turn easy.
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
hmm, ok
 
Chat with Memphus, who suggests offering MC to MS as well.

Spoiler :
Memphus says:
another interesting thought
Memphus says:
trade MC and Feud to MS
Memphus says:
that way Cav and Kaz have nothing to trade them for Feud
Memphus says:
so Try Feud and MC for CS and Calendar (or construction)
Memphus says:
if you get it on your turn then research the other one!
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
do they still not have MC?
Memphus says:
not that i know of
Memphus says:
ill check
Memphus says:
yup no MC or currency
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
ok
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
will mention it to team
 
Kazs have Metal Casting? We could try to suggest trade including it. If MS has monotheism we could incorporate that to the deal also.
 
Yeah, Kaz has Metal Casting.
 
Memphus shares parts of his chat with Sommerswerd. Most important thing is that Sommerswerd hints that MS is preparing for war, probably with us or Cav I guess, more likely us.

Spoiler :
Memphus says:
Memphus says:
Howdy Neighbour
Sommerswerd says:
Hi Buddy Pal
Sommerswerd says:
You are prestigious
Sommerswerd says:
I feel honored
Memphus says:
Prestigious? No Sir I am simply a peon
Sommerswerd says:
Have I been called to principals office?
Memphus says:
ill send you the whoel record when it is done
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
heh, ok
Memphus says:
Sommerswerd says:
If you give us Feudalism we will give you Aesthetics.
Sommerswerd says:
and peace
Memphus says:
ROFL
Sommerswerd says:
Of course yiou give Feud first
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
lol
Memphus says:
do they not realize we got the city we want (from the barb)
Memphus says:
we killed 3 chariots and lost 1 axe
Memphus says:
and have more troops in the area then thier entrie empire....
Memphus says:
oh well.
Memphus says:
all i can say is our team (well me personally) is so happy we met you guys when we did. because it was game over unless we foudn a way to work together!
Memphus says:
these other teams are nutso.
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yeah
Memphus says:
Memphus says:
With MS as thier lap dog, and us at war they are free to win.
Sommerswerd says:
I disagree.
Sommerswerd says:
First MS are no ones lap dog. They are planning something big
Sommerswerd says:
Thats all I can say
Memphus says:
FYI thought it was important you saw that
Memphus says:
quickly
Memphus says:
like i said when my chat is done youll get the whole log
Memphus says:
but MS big = attack vs cav or saturn
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yeah
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
their power has gone up recently
Memphus says:
interesting
 
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