Temple of Artemis Question
- Thread starter zubrin
- Start date
The sticking point is whether or not that is exclusive to units that lack another prefix, I suppose. There are naval units that are exclusively ranged.
I have a game coming up where I am England on the Citadels map, so I am trying to decide if I should be rushing that for late game play.
I have a game coming up where I am England on the Citadels map, so I am trying to decide if I should be rushing that for late game play.
Greizer85
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2009
- Messages
- 1,210
I dunno the answer to this question, but I wonder about something else: how does the '+10% faster growth' on the ToA work, exactly? Does it simply mean that at the time you'd normally have a size 20 city, you now have a size 22 one? That seems a tad underwhelming... I suppose if you had like 20 cities then it might be worth it.
I think there's three different kinds of growth bonuses in the game - the one on the ToA, the Aqueduct's '40% food stored' (or smth like that), and that of the Aztec special building, '+xx% food' (or smth like that). It'd be grand if someone with good knowledge would shed some light on these three types of bonuses and explain which one is the best in various situations.
Edit: a fourth kind is simple '+x food' on things like the Granary and Hospital, but that's easy enough to understand.
I think there's three different kinds of growth bonuses in the game - the one on the ToA, the Aqueduct's '40% food stored' (or smth like that), and that of the Aztec special building, '+xx% food' (or smth like that). It'd be grand if someone with good knowledge would shed some light on these three types of bonuses and explain which one is the best in various situations.
Edit: a fourth kind is simple '+x food' on things like the Granary and Hospital, but that's easy enough to understand.
The ToA food bonus increases raw food production (ToA and Aztec Floating Gardens are the only food multipliers that work that way -- everything else (e.g., Tradition bonuses, religious food bonuses, etc.) works on food surplus).
Do not underestimate the power of the food bonus. Check out this post (and related posts in the same thread): http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12192199&postcount=18
Do not underestimate the power of the food bonus. Check out this post (and related posts in the same thread): http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12192199&postcount=18
turingmachine
Emperor
- Joined
- May 4, 2008
- Messages
- 1,438
The production bonus is simply:
Meaning it is only applied to units in the Archery Unit Combat. (In the civlopedia under combat type it has to say Archery Units, so no naval ranged or siege ranged get the bonus. Things like the War Chariot and Keshik do, though).
The growth bonus is:
Meaning it actually gives a global +10% Food yield modifier to all cities.
Code:
<Building_UnitCombatProductionModifiers>
<Row>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_TEMPLE_ARTEMIS</BuildingType>
<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_ARCHER</UnitCombatType>
<Modifier>15</Modifier>
</Row>
</Building_UnitCombatProductionModifiers>Meaning it is only applied to units in the Archery Unit Combat. (In the civlopedia under combat type it has to say Archery Units, so no naval ranged or siege ranged get the bonus. Things like the War Chariot and Keshik do, though).
The growth bonus is:
Code:
<Building_GlobalYieldModifiers>
<Row>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_TEMPLE_ARTEMIS</BuildingType>
<YieldType>YIELD_FOOD</YieldType>
<Yield>10</Yield>
</Row>
</Building_GlobalYieldModifiers>Meaning it actually gives a global +10% Food yield modifier to all cities.
Greizer85
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2009
- Messages
- 1,210
But how much difference does it actually make? (Sorry, I'm bad at math.) Can you give a concrete example of a non-ToA city and a city that has the ToA effect working on it? Like, if you got the ToA on turn 1 (for simplicity's sake), how much of a difference would it make in one city by turn 100 in actual city size, all other things being equal?
strijder20
Wallowing in irony
You're asking an impossible question, to be honest. We have to know the tile yields of the surrounding terrain, your happiness cap, aquaducts/floating gardens present in the city... etc.
If I got turingmachine's comment right, it's actually a +10% food modifier and not a +10% growth modifier. This means you'll get 10% more food than you'd normally get. Say you have a size 10 city consuming 20 food and making 30 (growing at 10 food per turn). With the ToA it'd be making 33 food (growing at 13 food per turn; a 30 % increase).
This means you'll get your next citizen a tad earlier, giving a few turns of extra GPP/Commerce/production, and it's cumulative: you'll get the second citizen even earlier, and the third even more so.
Greizer85
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2009
- Messages
- 1,210
Thank you for the example; I think I somewhat understand it now. The more base food relative to consumption you have, the better it gets, right? Since the other buildings modify surplus food, the ToA-added extra food gets multiplied by their cumulative bonus... Overall it means that if you build the ToA, you should rush some granaries and ally a Maritime CS or two asap, correct? I think I'll try this in a game, see how much I actually get out of it.
compwiz1202
King
Yes, I love to have fun with Monty on lakes sometimes. ToA + Floating Gardens is 125% base food, and lakes are four food with Floating Gardens, so that's five food per lake. The city grows like mad for a while, like one turn a pop in the beginning sometimes.
The ToA and floating garden bonuses are amazing. Greizer, to give an example, imagine a city with 22 food supporting 10 citizens. Surplus is 2. Now multiply the base by .10. Surplus is 4.2! That's a 210% increase to growth rate. The higher the raw food, the more impressive the absolute numbers.
That's a huge mistake. ToA is one of the best science wonders in the game. Try it with Monty and the floating gardens. You'll be surprised.
ToA suffers on higher difficulty levels from being one of the AI favorite wonders and being off the Philosophy path.
compwiz1202
King
Last night I think I had the cap to like 50-60 and I even got shafted with the low number on lakes on a lake map. I think one time I had at least eight lakes which is forty food just right there.
Yeah, try to tech to philosophy without archery on immortal+. Good luck.
ToA is the easiest early wonder to get. For example, build worker first, tech archery, then mining, buy scout, grow to size 3 and improve hills and chop forests. ToA can be built around turn 30-36 with this strategy. That's pretty fast and usually fast enough on immortal.
