Indonesia discussion

It's even more baffling when you see Isabella speaking Modern Spanish, for example. Casimir is apparently speaking Modern Polish too.

I guess they are not as eurocentric as people call them!
Last year I was for research in Poland and we had some lectures at the MRI in Bialowieza. I was quite tired because we left that morning around 3.30 am to search for European bison's, so I didn't get much from most lectures. But I do recall one about a researcher that digs into archives to find out interesting information about the area, some of the stuff that he discovered dates back centuries ago. Knowing how languages can develop during the ages, I asked him how difficult it was to read these old archives. He mentioned that it was actually quite a challenge because Poland has had several different languages in its history. Polish didn't even exist in the time when those documents were made. So yeah, so far goes the historical accuracy of languages in CiV.
 
It wouldn't be hard to find someone who knows 15th century Spanish phonology though.
 
I think Firaxis has just been given more and more resources as time has gone on. The unique abilities in G&K and BNW are much more creative and flavorful than most of the ones seen in vanilla and there's clearly more work being done with the leaderheads.
 
I think Firaxis has just been given more and more resources as time has gone on. The unique abilities in G&K and BNW are much more creative and flavorful than most of the ones seen in vanilla and there's clearly more work being done with the leaderheads.

They still have not found a replacement for Popé yet though.
 
I wonder if Kris Swordsmen would get ranged promotions? and does unique unit's abilities can be counted as promotions?
 
I think Old Javanese is not that obscure. Many American scientists (anthropologist, sociologist and historian) are researching in Java, among others due to the Javanese is one of few Austronesian peoples who managed to build an indigenous, mega-monument building civilizations.

Do remember that mother of Barrack Obama was once an anthropologist studying blacksmithing in Java, and his sister is half-Javanese.
 
I think Old Javanese is not that obscure. Many American scientists (anthropologist, sociologist and historian) are researching in Java, among others due to the Javanese is one of few Austronesian peoples who managed to build an indigenous, mega-monument building civilizations.

Do remember that mother of Barrack Obama was once an anthropologist studying blacksmithing in Java, and his sister is half-Javanese.

Semi-related, Barack Obama still holds a firm grasp on the basics of the modern Indonesian language
 
:eek:A yankee Imperialist is related to Indonesia.Ну всё... Пизде*!
 
:eek:A yankee Imperialist is related to Indonesia.Ну всё... Пизде*!

Yes.., they even made ​​a little Obama statue there.. :lol:
Spoiler :
 
Just kidding... of course I'm not pro-Stalinistic, he killed the Revolution, after all. The Sovjetunion/Modern Russia were sometimes even more Imperialistic.
But I still was surprised.
 
I think Firaxis has just been given more and more resources as time has gone on. The unique abilities in G&K and BNW are much more creative and flavorful than most of the ones seen in vanilla and there's clearly more work being done with the leaderheads.

This. The new civilizations seem to be so much more unique and interesting than the vanilla ones. I think when they made Vanilla, they still had no ideas of what they could do with the UAs and UUs. It was during the DLCs that they expanded their horizons. That includes UIs, which are awesome, and were absent from vanilla.
 
The more unique UA's are definitely a factor of increased knowledge of the game but people are missing another reason. The lead designer changed for those 2 expansions and most of the civ patches. Considering I only really started to like CiV under Ed Beach's watch he might have had a lot to do with that trend. Also with so many UAs and UUs out there the more obvious picks were gone.
 
That is true. Ed Beach is best known for a couple of card games he did (never played them myself but that's what Google says) so I would suspect he's got a lot of experience and creativity when it comes to finding new and wacky ways to change the rules of the game. Since, y'know, that's how card games typically work.
 
Candi gets +2 Faith for each world religion present in the city.The restriction of fresh water sources isn't removed.

From PC Gamer:
 
Candi gets +2 Faith for each world religion present in the city.The restriction of fresh water sources isn't removed.

From PC Gamer:

Actually +2 faith per religion isn't that bad.

Assuming you're reasonably close to another religion, it's actually quite common to end up with 1 or 2 followers of another religion in your cities.

Could also be interesting with something like Interfaith Dialogue.
 
Hmm, the Indonesians seem to be more and more lacking in civ design. They rather seem to be quite similar to the Byzantines in that they need to rely on something to get their bonuses (optimized), but they don't get bonuses to getting that. For the Byzantines, it's religion, here it's Trade.

So Indonesia preferably settles on off-continent isles (early expansion is better than later cross-continental ones), but these should preferably be freshwater tiles, since otherwise you can't use the Candi. Now, how many 1-or-few-tiles islands with freshwater have you seen?

Indonesia also is better off not founding a religion, but instead creating many international trade routes with many civs in order to reel in their religions and make the most :c5gold: from the luxury ressource diversity they grant as their UA while meanwhile selling these very same luxuries. If you manage that, you get more faith which you can either invest in the random bonuses of the majority religion (who due to the trade may often change)* or - which is more probable - invest them in buying Great Persons with the additional :c5faith: . This conflicts with the base bonus of the building (Gardens gives more specialist points).... and you probably won't acquire enough faith since you don't have any big faith generators since you waited for Theology...

This in turn means you're better off by founding a religion to make use of the faith. But then you can't spread it really (so why enhance) so to not eradicate the other religions. It's mindboggling. Where did I go wrong? Or am I correct in that the Indonesians are a real "pro civ" in that they are very hard to master and it's quite a puzzle to make the most of their uniuqes.

*Do :c5faith: bought Cathedrals et al. stay when the religion changes? That might be worth it.

I didn't count the Kris Swordman since unique units often are more random and not really that beneficial to peaceful strategies anyways. And not every civ can have a killer ranged unique unit that helps in this regard...

(To topple it all off, I might add that the Kris Swordman is on the opposite side of the preferred teching order for Indonesia...)

I make a prediction here and now that the Indonesian will be one of the first to be rebalanced. (Even if the UA is as strong to balance out the rather random UB, it's still a good candidate for rebalancement since - well - the UA is so strong ;))

Also, I'm sad that the description for the Kris doesn't tell us anything new on the promotions, but I guess that's intentional by the developers (the previewer does not know more I guess ;))
 
*Do :c5faith: bought Cathedrals et al. stay when the religion changes? That might be worth it.

They do.

You're definitely right about the Candi being at odds with the whole maritime/settle on islands theme. I can't believe it requires fresh water. I get it for balance reasons (+25% GP in every city might be a bit much), but it doesn't make any architectural/historical sense and it conflicts with the UA. You'd think they could just change that GP bonus or something.

It is potentially a lot of faith, though.
 
FWIW, their UA seems designed to encourage trade routes because the other civs will probably get trade route benefits for diversity of luxuries. That will lead to more faith, which uses the Chandi to their advantage.
 
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