ExtraModMod

just 2things:

-re-"AI can trigger lairs in open-boundaries civs" : MoM blocks this. I don't know how : you cannot explore lair in friendly lands, unless in your own / vassal /allied lands.

-re palace commerce:
commerce heavy starts have an advantage,
but production heavy too (early rush)
and food heavy too.

IMO the issue with your proposition is that the secondary cities impact on commerce will not compare to the capital. and that's a problem.
IMO a better "balance" would be to increase ways to get more early commerce so that a gem/gold/wine/silk/coton early game can not snowball too much.

Suggestion: Upon defeating a wolf or wolf pack, a Scorpion Clan Goblin should upgrade to a Scorpion Clan Wolf Rider, rather than just a wolf rider. Even if the difference is purely cosmetic it would be an extra bit of immersion for the Clan of Embers

False Dead said:

1) Should the Lanun food bonus for water tiles really be tied to the Lanun Palace? I ask because as Decius of the Calabim I conquered Dunwich, and Built a Lanun Palace there to improve all my cities food uptake. Maybe tie it to Seahaven?

Click to expand...

I guess it was implemented like that because it was the easiest way to give a bonus to all Lanun cities. Now that we have support for civilization specific yields (for example, they give extra food on ice to Illians, and extra food on swamps to the Clan), it would make more sense to grant the Lanun this benefit by using them directly. If it is implemented like this, then a Tolerant leader that conquers a Lanun city will keep the food bonus on water plots for that city (as civilization specific yields are also adopted by Tolerant leaders), but they will not be able to propagate that bonus to any other cities. Thank you for pointing this, I have created an issue to fix this for the next version: https://bitbucket.org/Terkhen/extramodmod/issues/345/lanun-food-bonuses

False Dead said:

2) How much weight does AI put on defensive pacts when deciding to declare war? Hyberom just declared war on me and proceeded to get murderized by the 12 nations I had Pacts with.

Click to expand...

I don't know; I think that this should have a big weight.

False Dead said:

3) Unit Limits: 4 normally is okay but on huge games with all the Civilizations it is just not quite enough, is it possible to tie those limits to map size? or create a slider for selecting more or less?

Click to expand...

It would be possible to implement this as something associated to map size. I wouldn't know how to balance the values properly, though.

spaceman98 said:

Suggestion: Upon defeating a wolf or wolf pack, a Scorpion Clan Goblin should upgrade to a Scorpion Clan Wolf Rider, rather than just a wolf rider. Even if the difference is purely cosmetic it would be an extra bit of immersion for the Clan of Embers

Click to expand...

I assumed that was already the case, so this sounds like a bug to me. I have created an issue in the tracker and it will be fixed for 0.6.0.

----

Last week I have been far away from the computer I use to develop usually, so I have been toying a bit with mapscripts. Archipelago is also compatible with MapScriptTools now, and the resulting terrain is looking very nice. Also, many mapscripts used hardcoded map sizes that had little to no relation with the actual map sizes defined in the game (surprisingly this included Erebus too). Now all mapscripts generate areas that are at least proportional to the defined map sizes.

Besides that, I have nearly finished one that creates maps similar to certain, awesome fantasy world (fake internet points will be awarded to whoever mentions which one first). It creates a flat map, with the polar regions in the center, and the warm areas near the border. I still need to customize it to always create a mountainous region in the center, making sure that the biggest continent has a counterweight landmass in the opposite direction of the world, and some other minor things. Regardless, I am quite satisfied with how it looks after spending relatively little time on it:

Questions:

1)The Illians can cause weather effects that cause ice to come and go.
Scorch can turn ice to tundra.
If I scorch temporary illian ice to tundra, will the game remember that it's just a temporary effect and take the tundra back to grassland later, or will it be stuck as tundra forever?

If it forgets I think that should be changed.

2)An Illian ritual can cause permanent ice and tundra (I think?). Is there a way to reverse this? Destroying their civilisation or a counter ritual?

Related thought:
Why can't tundra in general be scorched to plains?

shahballs said:

Questions:

1)The Illians can cause weather effects that cause ice to come and go.
Scorch can turn ice to tundra.
If I scorch temporary illian ice to tundra, will the game remember that it's just a temporary effect and take the tundra back to grassland later, or will it be stuck as tundra forever?

Click to expand...

It should be changed to its original terrain type later, if it stays at tundra it is a bug.

shahballs said:

2)An Illian ritual can cause permanent ice and tundra (I think?). Is there a way to reverse this? Destroying their civilisation or a counter ritual?

Click to expand...

The Illian ritual is called The Deepening, and the terrain changes it inflicts are temporary. You can counter its effects by using the Scorch and Vitalize spells or by using the Genesis ritual, which is kind of the opposite of The Deepening (its effect are permanent, though).

shahballs said:

Related thought:
Why can't tundra in general be scorched to plains?

Click to expand...

Because that is a more powerful effect, that can be only achieved by using the Vitalize spell.

Terkhen said:

Last week I have been far away from the computer I use to develop usually, so I have been toying a bit with mapscripts. Archipelago is also compatible with MapScriptTools now, and the resulting terrain is looking very nice. Also, many mapscripts used hardcoded map sizes that had little to no relation with the actual map sizes defined in the game (surprisingly this included Erebus too). Now all mapscripts generate areas that are at least proportional to the defined map sizes.

Besides that, I have nearly finished one that creates maps similar to certain, awesome fantasy world (fake internet points will be awarded to whoever mentions which one first). It creates a flat map, with the polar regions in the center, and the warm areas near the border. I still need to customize it to always create a mountainous region in the center, making sure that the biggest continent has a counterweight landmass in the opposite direction of the world, and some other minor things. Regardless, I am quite satisfied with how it looks after spending relatively little time on it:

Click to expand...

This looks quite cool. Didn't you mention somewhere mst generates more natural terrain? I think I'll finally try something else then ErebusContinent.

Extra fake internet points to anyone who manages to cast wonder and turn their archmage into an orang-utan on your mapscript.

Question: Does For the Horde flip Barbarian Hero units? If so that opens up a really interesting CoE strategy: Deliberately cause Armageddon and For the Horde to try to flip the Horsemen

Also observations on revolutions:

1: Revolutions really hurts factions like the CoE that depend on rapid early expansion. Their still playable, but you have to play the usual Tall Empire strategy, and overcome their malluses, rather than playing to their strengths and going Wide early.

2: I also have a strong suspicion that whenever a good civ dies, the AC rises, and whenever an evil one dies, the AC drops, so if an evil civ is constantly revolting and then dying, the AC will drop quickly as a result, and if the same is happening to a good civ it will rise rapidly.

I'll probably play without revolutions to avoid these absurdities, and its clear that Revolutions needs to be re-balanced significantly to work in the world of FFH. Alternatively, CoE (and Doviello probably, though I haven't tried them yet) settlers can be made much cheaper, incentivizing an ethnic cleansing strategy (raze conquered cities and resettle them)

lfgr said:

This looks quite cool. Didn't you mention somewhere mst generates more natural terrain? I think I'll finally try something else then ErebusContinent.

Click to expand...

It is kind of subjective, but in my opinion it does. For example the maps that Erebus_mst generates are less "squared" than the ones in the original Erebus mapscript so it looks more natural. It is still different than ErebusContinent but it is nice to have additional options. I have also added another one of my favourite ErebusContinent features to all mst maps: when playing on any FFH2 mod, a small number of city ruins (along with some partially destroyed roads) will be placed far away from player starting points.

lfgr said:

Extra fake internet points to anyone who manages to cast wonder and turn their archmage into an orang-utan on your mapscript.

Click to expand...

That's awesome, it should give all of the fake internet points available

spaceman98 said:

Question: Does For the Horde flip Barbarian Hero units? If so that opens up a really interesting CoE strategy: Deliberately cause Armageddon and For the Horde to try to flip the Horsemen

Click to expand...

For the Horde should not flip Hero units or special units (like the Horsemen, the Sons of the Inferno and so on). If it does, it is a bug. In the future when multiple barbarians factions are implemented, For the Horde will only affect barbarian units of the "Orc" faction (leaving animal, winter and demon units unaffected).

spaceman98 said:

Also observations on revolutions:

Click to expand...

I agree with your observations; I think that Revolutions needs to be redesigned and modified a lot to fit the Fall from Heaven themes; the Pillar of Chains lore text is a great example of how Revolutions as it stands right now does not fit the lore that much. Revolutions also does not play along very well with some game mechanics such as evil alignments, how the Calabim deal with their population, the examples you mentioned and many other civilization or religion specific features. At the beginning of the development of ExtraModMod I raised similar concerns and I just wanted to remove the game option entirely. But the general opinion was that having it as an additional option didn't hurt, so I kept it at the end of the game options list as an advanced option.

I still believe that having a game option that does not work very well available to players as if it was complete is not a great idea, though. Maybe I could add "(Experimental)" to its text to make clear that it is not properly supported. Thoughts?

spaceman98 said:

Alternatively, CoE (and Doviello probably, though I haven't tried them yet) settlers can be made much cheaper, incentivizing an ethnic cleansing strategy (raze conquered cities and resettle them)

Click to expand...

Although it requires some technological investment, the Clan can create settlers really fast with the Warrens. For the Doviello, I think that decimating enemy cities and assimilating whoever brutal and savage enough to survive into their culture fits their "survival of the strongest" theme better. Both civilizations have Expansive leaders, which can build settlers twice as fast.

"For the Horde should not flip Hero units or special units (like the Horsemen, the Sons of the Inferno and so on). If it does, it is a bug. In the future when multiple barbarians factions are implemented, For the Horde will only affect barbarian units of the "Orc" faction (leaving animal, winter and demon units unaffected)."

In vanilla FFH I flipped a Son of the Inferno once (and proceeded to conquer a whole nation with him and some other random units, but mostly him). I haven't gotten a chance to do that yet with this mod, and its possible that barbs plus abolished this.

spaceman98 said:

In vanilla FFH I flipped a Son of the Inferno once (and proceeded to conquer a whole nation with him and some other random units, but mostly him). I haven't gotten a chance to do that yet with this mod, and its possible that barbs plus abolished this.

Click to expand...

I just checked the code; it is actually a bugfix coming from More Naval AI. For the Horde will only work in units that:

• Have the Orc promotion.
• Do not have the Hero promotion.
• Are not Disciples of Acheron or Sons of the Inferno.

So the problems that you mention should not be present in EMM.

Problem? But making civilizations tremble before my early-game pyromancer was so amazing!

One bug and one suggestion:

the bug: When I (Clan of Embers) get the Dark Cultists in Tower event, the demon that spawns as a result is... at peace with me, and so completely harmless. This would make sense for infernals, but not so much for the clan/doviello/decius etc.

the suggestion: workers should be able to slowly put out fires and smoke. This is good for the following reasons:

1: Gives workers something to do when your improvements have been built
2: Gives nations without water mana a way to deal with fire and smoke
3: Creates a new engaging option to interact with a mechanic (fire and smoke) without harming any other part of the game

spaceman98 said:

Problem? But making civilizations tremble before my early-game pyromancer was so amazing!

Click to expand...

That made things too easy

spaceman98 said:

the bug: When I (Clan of Embers) get the Dark Cultists in Tower event, the demon that spawns as a result is... at peace with me, and so completely harmless. This would make sense for infernals, but not so much for the clan/doviello/decius etc.

Click to expand...

That bug, among with many similar issues, will be fixed when multiple barbarian factions are finally implemented. I am still not sure if I will work in this feature after 3 or 4 major versions, or right now. I gave it a try back when I knew little about the game, but now it should be easier for me (specially with all the awesome changes to barbarian and lair spawning that come with barbsplus).

spaceman98 said:

the suggestion: workers should be able to slowly put out fires and smoke. This is good for the following reasons:

1: Gives workers something to do when your improvements have been built
2: Gives nations without water mana a way to deal with fire and smoke
3: Creates a new engaging option to interact with a mechanic (fire and smoke) without harming any other part of the game

Click to expand...

I thought that it was already possible to cut down forests with smoke, and that would remove the smoke.

Hello dear Terkhen.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12161120&postcount=2

This page does not include your latest Extra Mod Mod version.

Fixed, thanks.

Although links to the civfanatics forum in the format used by the previous system still seem to work, I am going to update all links to in the project page, in this forum thread and in the txt files of the mod itself to the new link format used by XenForo. If I miss anything, or something is not working, please let me know!

Terkhen, I met a bug :

Playing Khazad, I loosed two times (in two different games) my capacity to press buttons of the interface : as increasing science rate, or quitting a city screen when it's opened.

I don't know why. It has maybe a relation with the Khazad Vault system. There is no solution againt this bug, except reloading an olded save turn.

Jojo: Thank you for your report, sounds bad. Could you send me a savegame in which I can check the error?

Sorry but I did not conserved the save.

Alright, I will try to reproduce the error again by launching a lot of automated Khazad games

EDIT: I found the issue, it will be fixed for 0.6.0.