Ex-warrior... convert to the path of peace?

Hello!

I'm playing a multiplayer game against a mate. We started on different, distant landmasses so haven;t really interacted much. I am Rome and had iron at my starting point and the Zulus next to me, so war quickly ensued which I won. Over the next fifty turns or so I dominated my entire island and now have a whole bunch of puppet-ed cities. The game is in the Renaissance era now, so my military advantage is weakened and my domestic development is lacking.

While I was wamongering, my friend, playing as Portugal, has played the peace and trade game. And he's done well - he's ahead in tech, population, wonders, production and, by a huge margin, wealth! My policies and buildings are Honor; his are probably more peaceful and productive. I am wondering what to do to catch up with him.

I could build a fleet and send my veterans over to rough him up a bit, but I suspect that his high-tech defenders (few as they may be), ability to hire an army and allies, and short supply lines mean that any such offensive would be painful and probably unsuccessful.

So, I am planning to convert my large but fairly behind empire into a growth powerhouse and try to catch up! I have lots of resources and land to work on, so it may be possible. What I'd like to know is if there are any good BNW-specific tips (new player!) that might help my conversion to a peaceful society? Should I annex the puppeted states I have now? Any strategies that I can adopt to disrupt his progress? What do warriors do in Civ 5 after they retire from a bloody, brutal first half of the game? Or once a warmonger, always a warmonger?

Hi!

If you want useful tips, the community needs more information

- Map Size, Game Speed
- All your social policies i can not believe that you are in the Renaissance Era and there is only 1 completed tree...
- The Demography, screenshots etc.
- You wrote ... against a mate ... so i guess the AI controls the other players ... what difficulty?

My general opionion. He can't be far ahead in everything (then the game is practically over). Play around his weaknesses. If he has a small military...attack him in different areas. If he is allied to nearly every city state ... conquer his allies.
You chose Honor. Sitting around and playing a peaceful game sounds counterproductive to me.

Scout him out is the easiest answer or send some spies into his cities to see if his military is build up. Check his demographics and see if his military is the weakest in the game.

If you choose war, get a bunch of frigates and you should be able to overpower him before he has a counter to mass frigates.

Growth, growth, growth. Science is a function of population multiplied by the science buildings.

SirWinston: Unfortunately it's saved on his machine so I can't get screenshots, but it's a Quick Game on a Standard-Sized Small Continents map.

I have completed the Honour tree but haven't made much progress into any other one. I have a few from Liberty, I think, and probably another. But not that much - too many underdeveloped cities, perhaps, to have met the culture thresholds.

AI does indeed control a number of fairly decent Civs. Perhaps I can incite them to harass him a bit Your comment about it being unproductive to play peace - spot on; it's just that attacking him directly would be difficult. Attacking his city-state allies; now that's an idea; I could probably take one or two of them much more easily, denting his income!

Johnpecan: His military is, according to number of soldiers in demographics, second (after me). Frigate-spamming may be a good idea; I could kill some of his trade routes if I can get sea control. What is the counter to mass frigates, out of interest?

phillipwyllie: Yes - I hope I can grow fast enough to take advantage of my larger lands!!

Thanks for you thoughts all!

You may be able to sell a puppet city or two to the AI civs?

Oh, and the counter to mass frigates is privateers - they can take some punishment and they can capture frigates, but you'll want 3 or 4 to be effective.

With enough luck and numbers, privateers can be nifty against frigates. If he's ahead in tech, large city defense / artillery are also a concern.

He is a friend right? And he is a man, yes?
Then there is only one valid option here: you need to invade his lands!!
Else he is going to get to a point where you simply cannot win (too close to science victory, culture victory, etc - or he gets nukes)

The more I read about it... the more I think I should just deploy a half dozen privateers instead! They could subjugate his navy, capture any ships he builds, destroy his trade income and, if I am feeling bold, move in to grab some of his cash... all whilst protecting myself from any reprisals. That could actually dent him pretty badly if sustained.. the question is... how long until he gets Ironclads and steamrolls the privateers?!

Grabbing on of the city-states on his land sounds tempting actually; deprives him of trade all the while giving me a land base from which I could threaten him militarily. The problems of his tech and diplomatic lead still persist though...

alexandicity said:

.. the question is... how long until he gets Ironclads and steamrolls the privateers?!

Click to expand...

And what if he gets nukes? And what if the privateers prove ineffective? And what if...

My first advice is not to get caught up in 'what-ifs' too much, just make a reasonable plan and execute it. I mean it isn't real life and even if it all goes horribly wrong you'll have learned something. My second is better to be a little too bold than a little too cautious.
You are both playing to win; you chose a more martial strategy, so stick with that and go beat him up!

Aaah, you're right, of course. I am just trying to work out the best strategy (and, my extension, learn a little more about the game!), which often involves looking at the possible what-ifs

If he counters my privateers with nukes, well, I think it's time to congratulate him on a well-earned win

Agreed, but if you dwell too much on the what-if's you just tie yourself in knots. Fine (IMHO) to think "I'm going to do such-and-such, what might stop that working?" but you can't cover all the bases and you can delay a winning strategy by 'just building another couple of those units, just in case..' to the point where it doesn't work. If you have a long way to travel to get to your target then probably best to bulk up more as reinforcements can take too long, but otherwise I think the choice of target city or whatever is more important (i.e. decide on what you need to achieve from the conflict and then get on with executing it whilst it is still viable)

Just gonna agree with the conclusion you've arrived at. If you've picked honour and gone militarily already, don't try and go peaceful. You've got the advantage now, best to use it when you have it.

Taking city states is a nice idea, but you might want to bribe some AI into your war. You're gonna have a tough time not getting DoW'd on by everyone. If you have the money to bribe them, you could also try Embargoing him in the world congress, should ruin his money. Taking CS's + embargo would effectively destroy him, and if you could use some privateers to raid his trade routes it'd be even better. If you see him using internal food/production trade routes, raid them. It'd really hurt him.

If you got a couple of CS's down, you might try wasting some units and raiding his luxs, that'd also cut down on his money flows + happiness.

The thing with honor is that it benefits land units while adopting exploration benefits naval units. Adopt tradition and try to wonder spam and if that doesn't work, you can at least take the gold to shop for courthouses in your puppets. You don't have to attack but if you do, you can use exploration. If you can adopt rationalism then adopt that instead of exp or trad.