What would you want changed with the religion system?

Alexander Boney said:

Now, personally, I liked the religion system and how it worked, but there are some things I thought would have been good ideas:
1): Religious downsides/ atheist benefits:
The only side effect to religion as of yet is diplomatic penalties, and these are relatively minor on Prince(Preferred difficulty as of yet) anyway. This seems very minor, as religious clashes have started wars and caused major prejudice. Maybe a few penalties towards passive spread to already-religious cities? The other thing might be to allow de-conversion in the sense that flaws in the religious principles or scientific development might create atheists from religious citizens, and maybe making it so that religion is optional, and atheist citizens from a certain technological threshold produce 2 instead?
2): / Incompatibility?
The thing I find a problem with is that science is technically evidence-based investigation and exploration, whilst faith is unjustified belief. Maybe an adjustable slider might help with this?
You can tell me your opinions. I might update the list occasionally.

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Zet said:

Mostly because getting a good starting location with them is so rare and if they don't, then they're straight up worse than the other religious civs.

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Matthew. said:

And yet still better than the other 31 Civs who don't have easy faith generation

I don't see it particularly necessary. Any faith they get is a bonus and there is no justification that they need to be exactly equal to Maya/Ethiopia, as with that same justification then every other Civ needs +2 faith per city as well.

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Zet said:

Desert Folklore and, to a lesser degree, Dance of the Aurora are overpowered. At the very least, Desert Folklore should not work on flood plains because flood plains are not bad tiles that need extra help to become attractive.

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Zet said:

Faith gain from meeting a religious city state should be changed to the usual gold bonus instead because it's too random.

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Zet said:

One thing I generally dislike about religion is the inability to contrast incoming religious pressure. That would be the job of inquisitors, but as it stands they are worthess for everything but stopping foreign great prophets. Inquisitors stationed in a city should cut foreign religious pressure in half and there should be an enhancer that lets inquisitors eliminate it completely.

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Gucumatz said:

I think Inquisitors should also be reduced in price. Perhaps 2/3 or 5/7 the price of a missionary considering they are a 1 use item with far less use/reach?

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The QC said:

I have a big rant somewhere inside me against the concept that religion excludes science, but I am a little pressed for time at the moment, so you get away with it .

Some quick points:
- There was no society before the modern era that was not religious (and deeply so). This didn't prevent the world from making enormous scientific progress during the period.
- Some societies that were the most advanced of their time and place were theocracies or at least had a serious attachment to their state religion: the Arabs during the Islamic Golden Age, Tenochtitlan during its heyday...
- Even the Greeks and the Romans, who many people now seem to view as not really religious, actually were quite involved with their beliefs. We somehow now associate their gods and beliefs with stories and myths, but it was in fact an actual religion. Otherwise why would the Roman torture and kill all those Christian martyrs? Because they were offending the Roman gods, that's why. You can also see from other stories (like Alcibiades being accused of sacrilege) that the Greeks were similarly serious about not offending their gods.
- The myth of religion being against science comes from a simplified perspective of the "dark ages" and the Inquisition's role in it. The dark ages, in as much as they existed at all, were just a function of the Roman Empire's fall (with bonus darkness brought in by the Black Death). But technology continued to develop consistently. Consider how much better medieval caravels were when compared to Roman triremes, for instance.
- The Renaissance was religiously centered too, and also church funded in part. Renaissance era artists created a lot of religious work, but at the same time the cultural effervescence of the era also fueled scientific progress.

Be warned, this was the short version!

This is also not true:


The overwhelming majority of wars - even the Crusades - were fought for resources, power or plunder. You will find it incredibly, incredibly difficult to find even a handful of examples for truly religious wars.

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