"Our words are backed by nuclear weapons!"

I emailed Soren for clarifcation on Global Warming and he wrote "there is about a 5% chance that global warming will appear each turn - per total nuke that has been dropped during the game."

Anyway, I think I got into too much details about this in the article, considering the game is not even out yet. :p I'll remove that part from the article. Don't want anyone to lose sleep over it...
 
I can see why you dont want to nuke next to one of your cities

but....

if a SOD has just crossed your border and about 8 squares from a city
you should be able to nuke, but with a penalty
 
BTW Urederra

the amount of clean up the US did, (just not right after)
had a lot to do with that
 
obscurereferenc said:
Shame wonders can't be destroyed. maybe it was too easy to nuke them as a tactical measure; they could counteract this by having all other civs lose regard for you for every wonder you destroy. For example, in the real world if a nation were to destroy rome, along with all the historic monuments and works of art, the rest of the world would be angry.

Maybe I'll try to mod this (as well as making the manhattan project a small wonder)
Click to expand...

That actually would be a good effect, a severe diplomatic penalty (or perhaps cultural Penalty..even better) for destroying a Wonder [assuming its not something that happens accidentally.] Say you lose culture from all your cities based on the cutural value of any Wonder/Holy City/City you raze or nuke to oblivion.
 
Thunderfall said:
I emailed Soren for clarifcation on Global Warming and he wrote "there is about a 5% chance that global warming will appear each turn - per total nuke that has been dropped during the game."

Anyway, I think I got into too much details about this in the article, considering the game is not even out yet. :p
Click to expand...
That's quite a bit different than 1/1000 for every nuke.

So 5% for the first nuke
10% for the second.
25% after 5
50% after 10
 
Well it looks like nukes got nerfed, o well hopefully it works out in the big picture.

I still dont get the roads and rail's surviving a nuke, just a cat 3 hurricane rips bridges and tears down overpasses.
 
Global warming sounds like a neat tidbit -- remove it if you like -- it will stick in my memory.
 
Oh god...that is so beautiful. As someone who uses nukes a lot in the late game, this info warms my heart. :nuke:

Still, I have some(repeated) complaints:
-Why is The Manhattan Project a great wonder? That simply makes no sense whatsoever when you have a national wonder game mechanic.
-I can't nuke my own lands/units? Hey, war is hell buddy. They elected me(well, unless I revoke them :mischief: ) to make the unpopular decisions. What should happen is large unrest penalties that stack for each nuke used anywhere near a domestic target.
-Wonders surviving a blast I understand for reasons of gameplay, and even roads I can understand making it through unscathed, but rails surviving a nuclear blast is just wrong. During the cold war we specifically targeted major railways to disrupt Soviet transportation capacity.

Personally though, the climate changes don't bother me espically after reading this:
joethreeblah said:
That's quite a bit different than 1/1000 for every nuke.

So 5% for the first nuke
10% for the second.
25% after 5
50% after 10
Click to expand...
Yeah, quite a bit. Now I feel a lot better.

Still, thanks for the awesome article. Fallout has never looked so pretty.
 
PriestOfDiscord said:
Still, I have some(repeated) complaints:
-Why is The Manhattan Project a great wonder? That simply makes no sense whatsoever when you have a national wonder game mechanic.
Click to expand...
Actually, it makes pretty good sense. When the real-life Manhattan Project was started, no one was certain it was even possible to create a self-sustaining fission reaction. Figuring out what isotopes were best suited for a bomb, developing methods to refine and purify those isotopes, and properly designing the implosion trigger necessary for an efficient fission bomb were all extraordinarily difficult things. Once it had been worked out, it was relatively easy to duplicate the process. A Great Wonder is a perfectly reasonable way of representing the massive scientific and engineering accomplishment that researching fission bombs really was.

Personally, I think the civilization that completes the Manhattan Project Wonder should get a free nuke, and thus have the opportunity to use it before any other civilization. I may add this in a minor mod.
 
seems to me that nukes aren't so strong. and still we need to build that wonder, by the time civ's have arsenals of nukes, the game is going to be probably near the end anyway. building the wonder only makes it harder to get our hands on nukes.

hopefully though, some of the civs will have a tendecy to build nukes and use them, or at least we'll be able to mod it when the sdk comes out in 2006

Solver said:
The fun part is, this is also the first time I've seen a nuke shot in Civ4, I've never used them so far. See, I'm a good natured guy :).
Click to expand...

i thought testers had to test stuff ... :mischief:
 
Melendwyr said:
Actually, it makes pretty good sense. When the real-life Manhattan Project was started, no one was certain it was even possible to create a self-sustaining fission reaction. Figuring out what isotopes were best suited for a bomb, developing methods to refine and purify those isotopes, and properly designing the implosion trigger necessary for an efficient fission bomb were all extraordinarily difficult things. Once it had been worked out, it was relatively easy to duplicate the process. A Great Wonder is a perfectly reasonable way of representing the massive scientific and engineering accomplishment that researching fission bombs really was.
Click to expand...
But it wasn't a worldwide accomplishment so much as an accomplishment of the western allies, which can be represented by allies sharing wonder abilites.

Melendwyr said:
Personally, I think the civilization that completes the Manhattan Project Wonder should get a free nuke, and thus have the opportunity to use it before any other civilization. I may add this in a minor mod.
Click to expand...
On the other hand, this is a compromise I could live with.
 
Remember in SMAC when you detonated a "Fusion Planet Buster"? All the other factions would automatically declare war on you.
 
PriestOfDiscord said:
But it wasn't a worldwide accomplishment so much as an accomplishment of the western allies, which can be represented by allies sharing wonder abilites.
Click to expand...
Once the U.S. learned how to make the bombs, it was relatively simple to for spies to steal it and give it to the Soviet Union, which then took only a few years to duplicate the weapons. It took some of the world's greatest minds and incredible amounts of funding to learn how to do it, and now the process is so well understood that any country can construct one.

It's both realistic and sensible. The only real problem with the game's implementation is that it doesn't give the civ that first builds the Wonder any advantage, which isn't how things actually worked.
 
I think, like many, that the Manhattan Project should be a small wonder. The 1st one to build it can build the atomic bomb, carried by a bomber, with 1 square devastation. ICBMs should come later in the tech tree. Other civs, can build Manhattan at a reduced cost, or use the spy to steal atomic secrets.


Off topic....
Sirian said:
MILLIONS more people would have died, on both sides (Japan worse than America, but both sides over a million dead!)
- Sirian
Click to expand...

The number of lives "saved" keeps growing all the time. Forgotten is the fact the Japanese had been trying to surrender for many months. There was no need to drop the bomb nor invade.
 
Thunderfall said:
I emailed Soren for clarifcation on Global Warming and he wrote "there is about a 5% chance that global warming will appear each turn - per total nuke that has been dropped during the game."

Anyway, I think I got into too much details about this in the article, considering the game is not even out yet. :p I'll remove that part from the article. Don't want anyone to lose sleep over it...
Click to expand...

The term "Nuclear Winter" hasn't been heard of at Firaxis?

Expansion Pack - too many nukes produces a nuclear winter, not this global warming malarky!

Edit: Seems like nearly EVERYONE got in there with the nuclear winter thing, oh the embarrassment, time to shoot myself.
 
playshogi said:
The number of lives "saved" keeps growing all the time. Forgotten is the fact the Japanese had been trying to surrender for many months. There was no need to drop the bomb nor invade.
Click to expand...
If I remember my history correctly, the U.S. and its allies insisted upon an unconditional surrender. The Japanese feared the U.S. would depose and execute the Emperor, and so refused. The U.S. refused all offers of conditional surrender, even though the only real condition was that the Emperor be spared.

In hindsight, it's obvious the U.S. had no intention of harming the royal family, and permitted the Emperor to remain in a ceremonial position, although it insisted that political power be vested elsewhere. But Japan didn't know that at the time... and the U.S. was in no mood to accept anything but a complete and total transfer of power.
 
Great article TF. Almost as good as a demo (which I am still waiting for *hint* *hint* ;) )

Personally I would make nukes so incredebly overwelmingly powerfull that they blow realism out the door. Almost leveling the city. Radiation which can't be cleaned and spreads over time. Global warming / cooling that is catostophic. Everybody hating you. *rubs hands*
 
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