After the last poll detailing those who have been called the great, this one is for those who have been voted the title of the Greatest by their country. I can't say I agree with all of them but they were the ones chosen. Do you agree with them? Feel free to comment!
The Greatest of the Great, Part Deux
- Thread starter DAv2003
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Perfection
The Great Head.
How the hell did Ronnie get picked last?
I don't know what all of them did, but (at the risk of seeming cliched) of the ones I know I'd say Mandela. But I'll forego voting until I've heard a bit more about the rest of the field.
I must also say that I'm rather ashamed that my fellow countrymen chose a man like Churchill as their "greatest" representative.
I must also say that I'm rather ashamed that my fellow countrymen chose a man like Churchill as their "greatest" representative.
I don't see that "leading the country through its darkest hour" is particularly worthy of note. He was prime minister during a war. Is that such a great achievement? Shouldn't more credit go to the generals and indeed all the troops who actually fought and won the thing? Stalin led the USSR during the same period - and the Russians suffered far more in the war than the British did and played a greater role in defeating Hitler - yet I don't see many people defending him as a great man because of it.
I dislike Churchill (to put it mildly) not just for the bombing of Dresden but for a host of other things too. I think it ironic that the Americans seem to love Churchill, and even name ships after him, given that during the First World War he did everything he could to withhold from the Americans intelligence about German submarine activity, in the hope that the Germans would sink an American ship, kill lots of Americans, and persuade the US to enter the war. And of course, that's exactly what did happen.
Here are some nice comments from this charming character that give you some insight into his views:
As defence secretary in 1919-20, Churchill was responsible for putting down insurgency in Iraq, at that time occupied by Britain. He authorised not only the bombing of insurgents but also the large-scale gassing of civilians, mostly Kurds (he ordered this in the Soviet Union at roughly the same time, too). His comment on the morality of this?
Churchill never gave up his addiction to the pursuit of warfare through mass murder and terror... Consider this memo he sent, as prime minister, during the last stages of World War II. At least this plan was never carried out.
Here is an interesting piece on Churchill. There's a rather shriller one here that nevertheless has some good information.
I think the fact that this person was voted the Greatest Briton, ahead of figures like Newton, Shakespeare, and Darwin, is a sad comment upon both the historical knowledge and the values of British people today. It's also a striking example of how adulatory myth-making around certain figures can create a generally accepted legend that has only a tangential relationship with the truth. Of course, old Winston knew that too...
I dislike Churchill (to put it mildly) not just for the bombing of Dresden but for a host of other things too. I think it ironic that the Americans seem to love Churchill, and even name ships after him, given that during the First World War he did everything he could to withhold from the Americans intelligence about German submarine activity, in the hope that the Germans would sink an American ship, kill lots of Americans, and persuade the US to enter the war. And of course, that's exactly what did happen.
Here are some nice comments from this charming character that give you some insight into his views:
Winston Churchill said:
Winston Churchill said:
As defence secretary in 1919-20, Churchill was responsible for putting down insurgency in Iraq, at that time occupied by Britain. He authorised not only the bombing of insurgents but also the large-scale gassing of civilians, mostly Kurds (he ordered this in the Soviet Union at roughly the same time, too). His comment on the morality of this?
Winston Churchill said:
Churchill never gave up his addiction to the pursuit of warfare through mass murder and terror... Consider this memo he sent, as prime minister, during the last stages of World War II. At least this plan was never carried out.
Winston Churchill said:
Here is an interesting piece on Churchill. There's a rather shriller one here that nevertheless has some good information.
I think the fact that this person was voted the Greatest Briton, ahead of figures like Newton, Shakespeare, and Darwin, is a sad comment upon both the historical knowledge and the values of British people today. It's also a striking example of how adulatory myth-making around certain figures can create a generally accepted legend that has only a tangential relationship with the truth. Of course, old Winston knew that too...
Winston Churchill said:
North King
blech
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My god... Half the choices on there are absolutely terrible, the other half, obscure and thus rather tough candidates for greatness. How in the gods' names did DeGaulle and Reagan end up on there? 
I must abstain.
I must abstain.
I voted for Tommy too, because I like health care. Mandela is a close second, and perhaps would have been first were it not for my Canadian bias. Reagan was a bastard, he deserves nomination even less than Churchill does.
Losers all. I abstained.
jamiethearcher
President of Canmerica!
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I voted for Ronnie. You know defeating communism and all that. I don't think tommy douglas is the greatest Canadian, so I couldn't vote for the Canadian option, maybe if someone decent like Sir John A. was selected, my vote would have been different.
History_Buff
Deity
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Tommy Douglas all the way. Huzzah for free healthcare!
SuperBeaverInc.
Groucho
Tommy Douglas. The best thing to ever come out of Saskatechewan!
superisis
His Highness' dog at Kew
Mandela first and only choice (then again, I'm not too informed about the Canadian and Finnish options)
isn't there a Nazi quote that Hitler basically just did what Churchill did, except he applied it on European Jews not native in colonies.
isn't there a Nazi quote that Hitler basically just did what Churchill did, except he applied it on European Jews not native in colonies.
Ukas
Pthooey of Tomainia
jamiethearcher said:
How exactly did Ronnie defeat communism?
jamiethearcher said:
I don't see how Regan could be credited with the Cold War victory. The end of the Cold War came with the fall of the Berlin Wall and Gorbachev with Glastnost, neither of which were spurred by anything Regan did.
For what it's worth, I didn't vote for Tommy Douglas either for the greatest Canadian, I voted for Lester Pearson. Still, I think he's the best option in the list above (though I admit there are a couple with whom I am not familliar).
I wouldn't have voted Churchill as the greatest Brit either, I'd have voted for Sir Isaac Newton, and for greatest American I'd have chosen Jimi Hendrix.
I'll give a bit of background on Tommy Douglas since he's not very well known outside of Canada.
Ironically, he's the founder of a party which has never been elected federally, the New Democratic Party (basically Canada's equivalent of the Labour Party).
He was a Baptist minister from the Praries, who took up the cause of social justice, and was eventually elected Premier of the province of Saskatchewan. From there he moved to Federal politics where he led the NDP during the minority government of Lester Pearson. Holding the balance of power, he was able to influence Pearson to creating many social programmes which Canadians today view as nation defining, most notably our public healthcare system (which is currently in disarra, but that's a whole other story).
He is also the grandfather of Kieffer Sutherland.
Ironically, he's the founder of a party which has never been elected federally, the New Democratic Party (basically Canada's equivalent of the Labour Party).
He was a Baptist minister from the Praries, who took up the cause of social justice, and was eventually elected Premier of the province of Saskatchewan. From there he moved to Federal politics where he led the NDP during the minority government of Lester Pearson. Holding the balance of power, he was able to influence Pearson to creating many social programmes which Canadians today view as nation defining, most notably our public healthcare system (which is currently in disarra, but that's a whole other story).
He is also the grandfather of Kieffer Sutherland.
Swiss Bezerker
Emperor
Im going to go with the majical man called king wensulus. Of bohemia i think. So i vote check republic
Richard Cribb
He does monologues
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This is one of the strangest polls I have ever seen.
With a couple of exceptions (Douglas, Mandela)I find most of those people more than worthy of my contempt.
Why exactly those countries are chosen is also not completely clear to me.
@Plotinus:
as usual. I agree on the assessment of Churchill.
He was just as big a scumbag as Churchill.
With a couple of exceptions (Douglas, Mandela)I find most of those people more than worthy of my contempt.
Why exactly those countries are chosen is also not completely clear to me.
@Plotinus:
as usual. I agree on the assessment of Churchill.He didn't.Ukas said:
He was just as big a scumbag as Churchill.
pboily
fingerlickinmathematickin
@luceafarul: In Canada, they held a televised contest (that went on for a month or so) where you could vote for the greatest Canadian. I'm guessing that the other countries on that list also made something like that, and the winners are the ones that have been chosen.
Aramazd
Deity
We had a vote for the greatest American and Ronald Reagan won, beating G.W. and Lincolnpboily said:
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