FfH2 0.25 Changelog

any chance of bringing back Stone resource since more resources available? Crafting-Masonry seem so weak considering each offer improvements that only work on 1 normal resource (sheut stone is not often encountered, especially early on).

Might be good to take out Wineries completely, the brewery building covers that function pretty well, could instead make wine a farm or plantation resource, and add it to the list of +1 happies for breweries.

Workshops come really late and a lot of it is nonsensical, like construction adds +1 to workshops, but you can't even build workshops til Iron Working. Seems like it'd be better if you could build Workshops with Crafting (i can't imagine anyone considering them overpowered), and they might add a bit more functionality to Crafting.

Moving Forts to masonry could be fun too.. I know they're in math in vanilla, but masonry seems early enough to be useful and makes sense (if you can build stone walls, you can build a fort).

I agree with most of sureshots suggestions. (I don't see any point in removing wineries, and they look neat.)
I'd like adding stone back in, even if it is just for a resource to give extra production to a tile after masonry, without wonder rushing.

Sureshot said:

Might be good to take out Wineries completely, the brewery building covers that function pretty well, could instead make wine a farm or plantation resource, and add it to the list of +1 happies for breweries.

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If you're suggesting changing it to +1 happiness for cities with breweries, that means that cities that aren't next to a river will get nothing from wine, right?

marioflag said:

Kael now that in BtS you can add as many game options as you want is there any plan to introduce a game option which nerf combat experience?

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With BtS, the best solution, in my opinion, is to reduce the minimum experience reward to 0 (this is configurable in the ini file, if I remember correctly). That means your fully-promoted hero's battles against wimpy units will get him/her nothing in return. And this works for all game speeds.

Really, what skills would a Combat 5 Maceman improve from slaughtering a goblin unit? He'd probably get tennis elbow, or something...

Taking this further, the silly exp limit on barbarians and animals can be removed. And Valor and the Raider trait would add 50% exp (75% if used together), rounded down (so those formerly 1 XP battles would still get your hero nothing).

what happens when you sacrafice an angel th bhall and how do you get an angel if your not a mercucian?

I would like to see stone again, but I would also want to keep Wineries at least for their graphics (perhaps renaming then vineyards) and workshops. Workshops need some sort of boost, perhaps tied to civics (Arete maybe?). Hmm..I was just thinking how awesome it would be if each workshop in your city radius could let you assign another engineer (probably not possible though)

I also think that Way of the Earthmother should require either mining or masonry. (I have changed the requirements for all my religious techs actually. WoE requires masonry/mining and writing, since the religion is dependent on runes after all. The Order need divination and code of laws, AV requires necromancy, OO sailing. Each religion-specific tech is also a shortcut to much latter techs.)



I'm all for removing the vs barbs xp limit, especially if you are facing stronger barbs. I'd like to give the Barbarian state several powerful traits (like aggressive/charismatic/protective/raider/summoning), but make them loose them all when their King, Orthus, dies. I did this easily in .22 (obviously without the BtS traits) by copying part of the code that costs Basium/Hyborem their traits, but in the Beta I can't find this code. I suspect it may have been moved to the SDK, which means I may have to teach myself C++ pretty soon.

Im playing with adding in some new resources right now (Cotton, Olives and Tobacco) but Im still not a big fan of stone.

Forts have to stay late because, as they currently work, they can be used to gather any resource. So if you move them early then you never have to worry about any other sort of improvement since you can dump a fort on any bonus.

MagisterCultuum said:

On another note, I was also thinking that, since Doviello warriors use weapons they find mid-battle (including corpses), that they should get a weapons upgrade whenever they defeat enemy units who already have that metal promotion. (I would prefer if the building requirements for metal upgrades were also re-introduced eventually, so that this ability would be more meaningful)

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I think that's a cool and flavoursome mechanic!

Kael said:

Im playing with adding in some new resources right now (Cotton, Olives and Tobacco) but Im still not a big fan of stone.

Forts have to stay late because, as they currently work, they can be used to gather any resource. So if you move them early then you never have to worry about any other sort of improvement since you can dump a fort on any bonus.

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doesnt work for mana, but also, you need the enabling tech. like for copper you need bronzeworking for the copper to be hooked up. incense you need philosophy before it works, reagents you need KotE.

cool about the other resources

So, how many more resources can we expect, and what do these new resources do? Are they just standard health/happiness resources, or do they have some special effects? I was thinking that cotton could be used for sails, so could increase the build rate of ships. Some other navel stores to increase ship building, like tar or special types of wood (which would only appear in Forest/Ancient Forests and could be harvests with lumber mills) might be interesting. I see no reason not to borrow any and all new resources from the expansion, like silver (building like jewelers and dwarven smithies should get the similar bonuses from these as from silver). I was thinking that new metals (with associated weapons upgrades) might be nice too. The first to come to mind was Tolkien's Galvorn (the jet black metal that only Eol the Dark Elf knew how to make.), which might be interesting as a hell resource (intermediate between iron and mithril, perhaps as strong as mithril but in death damage or weaker in defensive strength.) This would be much more interesting if the weapons promotions actually changed the appearance of units using them.


I agree that forts must be fairly late game improvements. Actually, I was still kinda hoping that my unique fort idea could be implemented. Once a worker finishes building a fort, it would be replaced by a civ-specific fort (at least if you civ has a unique fort). I was thinking that the Chancel of the Guardians and the Citadel of Light might be better as forts than as buildings. The Citadel would still produce a fireball when enemies approach, and would increase visibility like a lookout tower. A Chancel would give units inside the defensive promotion, and would sanctify the land within a radius of ~3 tiles (allowing the Elohim to keep hell contained with a series of unique forts). Pirates coves might also be better as unique forts, especially if they can be made capable of blockading on their own. The Amurites and Sheaim could build "Mage Towers" instead of forts, which would strengthen and increase the range of spells/summons and maybe increase the rate arcane units gain xp. Perhaps there could be an extra bonus for building these over mana nodes.

hossam said:

what happens when you sacrafice an angel th bhall and how do you get an angel if your not a mercucian?

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plz answer my question.

Would I be correct in assuming that Cotton interfaces w/ the Tailor building the same way Sheep and Silk do?

Actually, the fist post says that the Tailor building gives the bonus with cotton instead of with sheep. I would prefer that it get a bonus from both.

since theres no US gov in ffh can we get Hemp as a resource?

*edited*..

Does this mean BtS is required now?

Kael said:

Im playing with adding in some new resources right now (Cotton, Olives and Tobacco) but Im still not a big fan of stone.

Forts have to stay late because, as they currently work, they can be used to gather any resource. So if you move them early then you never have to worry about any other sort of improvement since you can dump a fort on any bonus.

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That right, what is stone? Big mass of what? We have stones everywhere, they are not unique resourse. Well, maybe it could be not a stone, but, for example Sandstone?
It was rather easy stone to curve, capable to provide some hammer boost.

40 players… poor boy, err… my computer, how It would “eat” it?

Well, features are really great things. I remember it from Alpha Centaury. They were not critical, but could change every game greatly by giving some advantages to players. (But, as I remember, they had 100% percent chance to appear. I think your idea of non-guaranty feathers are better, so it helps to prevent “special feather hunting” strategy (most boring ones, IMO)

And of course- removing scourged land from orcs makes them rather more playable than before!

Arrr… Couldn’t wait any more! Puny humans! We will come and enslave you! Your spell and swords wouldn’t help!

I'm really looking forward to any "design a unique feature" contests...

Maniac said:

IIRC the reason to move forges from Smelting to Bronze Working was because bronze weapons required a forge. Now this is no longer the case, how about changing Forges back to how they were before? Prereq Smelting, cost 250, +25% hammers, +1 engineer slot, +1 happiness with gold.

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I second that.

flashbacck said:

Does this mean BtS is required now?

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I think version 0.23 patch c(?) is the final (or nearly final) release of FFH2 on the vanilla Civ 4 platform and subsequent releases (0.25+) will need bts.

Kael said:

Im playing with adding in some new resources right now (Cotton, Olives and Tobacco) but Im still not a big fan of stone.

Forts have to stay late because, as they currently work, they can be used to gather any resource. So if you move them early then you never have to worry about any other sort of improvement since you can dump a fort on any bonus.

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Mwahahaha! At last, my people can return from the shadows, and claim their rightful place as masters of Erebus once and for all!

Err... seriously, that's good news about forts. As for stone, I agree with Copper Golem; if it gets back in, it needs to be something you can't just pick up off the street. Personally, I'd love it if we could get obsidian or some kind of glass as a resource (maybe glass as a normal resource and obsidian as the Hell version?).

We already have Obsidian Gates for transportation, Native Americans used obsidian all the time for weapons (especially the Aztecs; look up the Jaguar Warrior in vanilla civ), and glass weapons show up in fantasy quite a bit (I'm thinking Elder Scrolls here), so it's not too far out to say that someone might edge their weapons with glass to make them sharper.

Just a thought. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go work on my plan for Hobbit Domination...