Chopping Forests

eric_ · Jun 16, 2011

So, I'm wondering: am I the only person who almost never chops, unless it's to build a plantation on a lux in a forest? I always feel like I have more to gain from saving the forests for lumber mills, but just read a thread where almost everyone mentioned chopping as a reason to go for mining first.

It's interesting, because I've noticed that I have a bit of an early game lag, and then sometime during the medieval or renaissance period my empire really starts to take off. I'm wondering if more chopping would give me a little early-game boost.

For those who do chop, do you tend to leave forests around for lumber mills in any city that has forests, or do you clear cut a city once you've picked up the ax? Do you only chop if there's a lot of forest in a given city's radius, so some can be left standing?

For those who don't chop, I'm glad I'm not alone

.

wannabewarlord · Jun 16, 2011

I barely chop as well. But not because I specifically want to keep the forest for lumbermills, I just hardly need it.

Chopping is a trade off. If you need something now and need it quicker, then chopping is a possibility. If you can get it just the same without chopping, but a few turns later (i.e. not a wonder) and it is not critical, keeping the forest is probably a good idea.

lilnev · Jun 16, 2011

Definitely chop forested hills -- mines are better than lumbermills (assuming hammers are more coveted than food, which is almost always the case). Other forests, it largely depends on how soon I expect to want it as a tile. If I have several resources and hills, then I'm not going to be working a lumbermill before fairly late in the game, and I may cash in the forest early. If I have few good hammer tiles, the forest needs to stay.

Mods · Jun 16, 2011

theres no point in having a trading post in a forest either, unless you want to build a lumbermill there later for some reason, but that a real waste of worker turns.

Bibor · Jun 16, 2011

Mines cost 2 :c5food:

to maintain and give 3 :c5production:

.
Lumbermills cost 1 :c5food:

to maintain and give 2 :c5production:

.

It really depends on your food income from "food-oriented" tiles. Plains will almost always favor lumbermills over mines, while grasslands will almost always favor mines.

AznWarlord · Jun 16, 2011

If it's a riverside forest, chop it for a grassland. You get 20 production and tons of food with Civil Service.

Agent Cooper · Jun 16, 2011

If you have 2 workers improving the capital tiles early in the game, chopping can be very effective in building those pivotal National Wonders fast. Remember that you can chop nearby forest outside of your borders and still get decent hammers towards what you are producing.

vexing · Jun 16, 2011

if a forest or two are available to be chopped for NC i will chop.
since mines become better than lumber mills sooner definitely get rid of forested hills, and similarly since riverside farms become better than anything else early get rid of riverside forests (unless you're otherwise in a really poor production spot).

Martin Alvito · Jun 16, 2011

Chopping is for accelerating critical early production goals. The chop can be useful for getting faster Settlers, units, buildings and Wonders. Usually players will :c5gold:

rush buildings if they are critical, but sometimes that just isn't feasible.

I agree with vexing that Forests on Hills are pretty much a no-brainer chop. Riverside Forests are situational. If you have a strong :c5production:

site that needs food, chop. If you have a bad :c5production:

spot that will be forced to work the Forest, you probably should not chop it.

The one thing that you have to think about with the chop is that the Worker turns could instead be used to build an improvement. A resold luxury could very well net you more :c5production:

faster than a chop. This is the principal reason that chopping tends to take a back seat in this game.

oledavy · Jun 16, 2011

I generally chop every forest I see around my capital to speed production on the very early builds, provided I did go mining first. Later in the game, whether I chop or not is generally situational, depended on how much production/food the city is putting out. I remember chopping being so much more important to speeding the early builds (especially settlers) in cities in Civ4. In Civ5, there never seems to be enough forests around to really leverage it as effectively as you could in Civ4.

eric_ · Jun 16, 2011

Good stuff, y'all, thanks. I'll be taking a more nuanced approach to forested tiles from now on.

I remember chopping being so much more important to speeding the early builds (especially settlers) in cities in Civ4.

Yeah, that's one of the impetuses for this thread. I chopped forests like crazy in cIV, but do so rarely ciV.

roguepro92 · Jun 16, 2011

trade post until lumber mill gives 2hammer with the tech improvement.

spider1 · Jun 16, 2011

If I want to grow the city, which is almost always the case, I'll chop everything in sight. The only reason I'd leave a forest on a grassland tile is if there is simply nothing else producing hammers in that city.

Tabarnak · Jun 16, 2011

In multiplayer i chop warriors and workers while expanding, and to finish libraries faster in low producion cities after a pre-NC expansion to begin NC faster. I chop a lot in the beginning, i chop forest inside territory. Later, with culture expansion, i build lumbermills on other tiles.

I also chop forest to clear tiles to let archers and cats to ''see'' everyone. On a critical border i like to keep a forested hill and fortify a strong unit to keep a perma-look at what is going around and to protect against threats.

Chopping is more favorable and useful in the beginning imo.

DaveMcW · Jun 16, 2011

Chopping is very useful in the endgame, as it's the only thing that can accelerate projects. I generally save forests in my capital for that purpose.

Pazyryk · Jun 16, 2011

Chopping gets you -1 :c5food:

on hills but +1 :c5food:

on flat grassland (and no change on flat plains). So, depending on terrain, it is often a wash anyway. And the tech-associated boosts in farms and mines comes earlier than lumbermills, particularly farms next to fresh water (which you can build on flat and hills), making forest tiles actively worse than a mix of cleared flat and hill tiles. The only time I ever consider not chopping at full speed is if I have absolutely nothing worth building in the city at the moment, which is a rare situation. To add to all that, it seems to take longer to build TPs on forest than cleared tiles.

The only situation I can think of not to chop is a city with no flat and no fresh water.

Carnage04 · Jun 16, 2011

DaveMcW said:
Chopping is very useful in the endgame, as it's the only thing that can accelerate projects. I generally save forests in my capital for that purpose.

In the end game? What can you build later in the game that 20 or so hammers are going to make a difference? I would think if you don't chop early that chopping is kind of useless.

vexing · Jun 16, 2011

utopia project, apollo program, etc.
it can shave a turn, but yeah, generally dubious value compared to the compounded effects of shaving 2-3 turns off national college

Pazyryk · Jun 16, 2011

vexing said:
it can shave a turn, but yeah, generally dubious value compared to the compounded effects of shaving 2-3 turns off national college

And shaving a turn or so off every subsequent build because you got 2-3 turns on the NC. Hard to quantify but I'd say 20 :c5production:

in the early game is as good as 500 :c5production:

late.

RD-BH · Jun 18, 2011

Chop around cities:
1) production bonus
2) prevent defensive bonus for invaders
3) improve mobility on flat land
4) increase growth

Chopping Forests

Emperor

Prince

King

Warlord

Doomsday Machine

Monarch

Lynch's Creation

knows

Real men play SMAC

Chieftain

Emperor

Warlord

Prince

Cut your lousy hairs!

Deity

Deity

Warlord

knows

Deity

Human

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