LK131 - cultural conquest, prince, Pangaea, standard map

LKendter · Jun 3, 2007

Due to the nature of this game I want to spend some time getting the team in sync on game parameters.
1) We need to agree on which creative civ we want to be.
2) We need to agree a high level plan.

Cultural conquest
Prince, map=Pangaea, civ=TPD, map size = standard, goal = cultural conquest
All victory types except conquest are disabled.
Variant Rules:
1) Cities may not be captured or razed under any circumstances.
2) Our units cannot enter enemy territory without Open Borders.

This is a redo variant based on RB29. The only difference is we will do it with Warlords, not vanilla.

====================================

Cultural conquest
Signed up:
LKendter
Lukep
Swiss Pauli
Tatran
Admiral Kutzov

Tatran · Jun 3, 2007

Here are my votes for the leader :
1) Louis XIV
2) Augustus Caesar
3) Catherine
4) Hatshepsut
5) Kublai Khan

I think the French leader is unquestionable the best.
It's only Prince, so we can do some heavy wonder building.
French UB, salon, will give us a free artist.

LKendter · Jun 3, 2007

Tatran said:
Here are my votes for the leader :
1) Louis XIV
...
French UB, salon, will give us a free artist.

While it is a little bit late needing astronomy, it is a great UB for this variant. The challenge will be getting the front line cities building them.

I agree this looks the best leader. What does the rest of the team think?

lukep · Jun 4, 2007

Louis is good no prob.

Augustus (crea/org) is another possible

Swiss Pauli · Jun 4, 2007

Louis sounds good to me.

Lee - we'll need to hand pick the other leaders in order to avoid Creative civs. Maybe the likes of Ragnar, Shaka, Churchill, Stalin, Hannibal, & Wang Kon would be interesting as they're all new in Warlords. Though maybe not the Korean on reflection (see below).

From RB29 (which I only joined part-way), the key seems to be to settle aggressively in the early game, and try to steer religions into at least some of these cities (a reason not to have Korea as an opponent). Other than that, don't ignore military for too long if we're clashing borders with an AGG civ, and, finally, try to get a boat out asap to check for outlying islands, which were a real pain in RB29.

LKendter · Jun 4, 2007

Swiss Pauli said:
Louis sounds good to me.

We haven't heard from AK yet, but with 4 of the 5 votes for Louis I am making him the civ.

Swiss Pauli said:
Lee - we'll need to hand pick the other leaders in order to avoid Creative civs.

I agree we need hand picked civs, and I will start the debate. Hopefully we can avoid too many aggressive civs.

We will also need to agree on a high-level plan quickly. I want some agreement before I start my turn. I am doing this of the top of my head at work, so I easily could have missed some things. I just wanted to get a target list.

High-level plan
Key wonders to target: Eiffel Tower (culture boast), Statue of Liberty (free specialist including artist for the front lines), and Sistine Chapel (culture boast). I would prefer we get Stonehenge to avoid giving the AI free culture, and for us to get it.

Key civics - Caste System (unlimited artist), and representation (early game science boost)

We really want the Globe Theater / National Epic combination. IMHO the only useful GP for use are primarily artists (self-explanatory) and prophets (shrines and founding religions).

If possible we want to spread conflicting religions to different civs. While it does give them culture, having AI raze some early cities, or at least burn troops is big for us. I would prefer to not anyone's worst enemy.

Swiss Pauli · Jun 4, 2007

LKendter said:
Key civics - Caste System (unlimited artist)

Not sure about Caste until later in the game as we're unlikely to have the food pre-biology to run too many Artists. Slavery will be useful to whip that cultural infrastructure (as well as military as we're likely to get attacked at some point). AGG civs aren't too bad: they make good attack dogs and aren't likely to lightbulb a religion before us.

Drama would be an important tech for us for the cheap theatres.

As to the opening, it's pretty likely that we go Settler first whilst teching to Medi/Poly. I don't think we need the 1st relgion in our capital, but one of Hindu/Budd will have to there for denial purposes as we're not likely to get two settlers out and two religions founded before the AI gets a religion.

Tatran · Jun 4, 2007

About the hand picked leaders.
Alexander (Odeon), China (Pavilion) and Huayna Capac (Terrace) have all
UBs which produce culture.
Judaism is a good religion to go after (Organized Religion -> 25% extra hammers) for wonder building. Monotheism is also required for Theology.

LKendter · Jun 4, 2007

Tatran said:
About the hand picked leaders.
Alexander (Odeon), China (Pavilion) and Huayna Capac (Terrace) have all
UBs which produce culture.

Good point -

Picked opponents

Rejected opponents
Alexander (UB)
China (UB)
Huayna Capac (UB)
Augustus Caesar (creative)
Catherine (creative)
Hatshepsut (creative)
Kublai Khan (creative)

Swiss Pauli · Jun 4, 2007

We also need to reject Civs which start with Mysticism:

Korea
Celtia
Arabia
Azteca
India
Spain

LKendter · Jun 4, 2007

Swiss Pauli said:
We also need to reject Civs which start with Mysticism:

Korea, Celtia, Arabia, Azteca, India, Spain

I updated the list for this issue. I am at work and can't bring up the game, but I suspect our picked opponents is almost decided since we have eaten up a lot of civs already in the reject list.

Picked opponents

Rejected opponents
Alexander (UB)
China (UB)
Huayna Capac (UB)
Augustus Caesar (creative)
Catherine (creative)
Hatshepsut (creative)
Kublai Khan (creative)
Korea (mysticism)
Celtia (mysticism)
Arabia (mysticism and religion obsessed)
Azteca (mysticism)
India (mysticism and religion obsessed)
Spain (mysticism and religion obsessed)

Tatran · Jun 4, 2007

I've forgotten the madrassa (Arabian UB), instead of producing 2 cpt it
generates 4 cpt.

Now, let's focus on the leaders we DO want.
Washington, Tokugawa, Shaka, Ragnar, Peter, Mehmed II, Hannibal,
Frederick, Elizabeth and Churchill.

Next leaders have the Industrious and/or Imperialistic trait. It would make
this game it bit easier if they aren't in.
Bismarck, Cyrus, Genghis Khan, Julius Caesar, Stalin, Victoria, Ramesses II
and Roosevelt.

Some leaders are very hard to bribe to go to war, Cyrus, Elizabeth.
Other leaders, Shaka and Ragnar, won't trade much.

Swiss Pauli · Jun 4, 2007

I'd vote for:
Ragnar
Shaka
Mehmed
Hannibal
Churchill
Washington.

LKendter · Jun 4, 2007

At this point I do want some input from the other players:
Lukep
Admiral Kutzov

Picked opponents

Rejected opponents
Alexander (UB)
China (UB)
Huayna Capac (UB)
Augustus Caesar (creative)
Catherine (creative)
Hatshepsut (creative)
Kublai Khan (creative)
Korea (mysticism)
Celtia (mysticism)
Arabia (mysticism and religion obsessed)
Azteca (mysticism)
India (mysticism and religion obsessed)
Spain (mysticism and religion obsessed)
Cyrus (won't go to war easily)
Elizabeth (won't go to war easily)

Tatran · Jun 4, 2007

A small detail about Washington, his favorite civic is Free Speech,
but I didn't see him using it much.
I guess will running Representation/US + Bureaucracy/FS + Slavery/CS +
Mercantilism? + OR/Pacifism/FR?
Favorite civics of leaders :
Peter -> Bureaucracy
Tokugawa -> Mercantilism
Frederick -> US

So, my list of opponents based on favorite civics :
Frederick
Churchill (nationhood)
Washington
Shaka (police state)
Tokugawa
Hannibal (free market)

Ragnar (hereditery rule), Peter and Mehmed (vassalage) will give
too many early positive relation modifiers.
It is also good to have a mix of non-warmongers versus warmongers.

Swiss Pauli · Jun 4, 2007

Having had to deal with Toku in RB29, I'd rather not have him and his always-closed borders in this game.

Tatran · Jun 4, 2007

If you share Tokugawa's religion he won't be a problem.
But you have a point, a refusal gives -2 relations instead of -1.

LKendter · Jun 4, 2007

I agree Toku is to much of pain with closed borders, and almost impossible to get him to open them.

Tatran · Jun 4, 2007

May spies, bombers, nukes ignore the second rule about not leaving own
territory, What about attacking a stack in foreign territory, but not leaving
own ground.
At Prince level the barbs can be really helpful to take out some AIs if set
raging. The AIs don't start with Archery at Prince. The Great Wall won't
be useless + generates some culture. (2 cpt)

LKendter · Jun 4, 2007

Non-military units such as spies may leave our territory without open borders.

I really don't expect nukes to come into play. I don't recall any rulings for them in RB29.

No military unit may enter enemy territory. An attack into a city touching us is allowed per RB29, so I will extend that and allow attacking a stack on our borders. As long as our troops never leave our land that is fine.

LK131 - cultural conquest, prince, Pangaea, standard map

Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!!

Deity

Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!!

Prince

Emperor

Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!!

Emperor

Deity

Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!!

Emperor

Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!!

Deity

Emperor

Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!!

Deity

Emperor

Deity

Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!!

Deity

Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!!

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