1.0.0.62 Patch: AI /worse/ at trade

Öjevind Lång · Oct 25, 2010

zonk said:
Fixed that for you...

What's that supposed to mean? I simply pointed out that you can mostly get resources from the city states, and finding the money to bribe them isn't hard if you know how to play the game right. Once they have started to like you, they often continue to do so and give you fairly simple tasks to fulfill so you can continue to be their buddy.

MadRat · Oct 25, 2010

Just how tarded the AI trade system gets:

Montezuma founds a city 4 hexes from my capital in a desert - annoying the piss out of me. The AI has this stupid idiotic drive to spam cities in worthless pots just to be prick. I just got over a big war with Russia and I dont need a new one. So I inquire about a trade.

Montezuma wants 7 luxuries (all of mine), 1800 gold (all gold), 45 GPT (all) and Iron for a size one city. Catherine did the same thing - and ended up losing 4 cities- pissed me off enough by her city spamming next to my cities. To test I offer a size 1 city i conquered - Monty wont give me more that 180 gold.

Bottom line the AI doesn't play to win - it plays to screw the human player.

Rat

DaveGold · Oct 25, 2010

I simply pointed out that you can mostly get resources from the city states, and finding the money to bribe them isn't hard if you know how to play the game right.

Yes. We're doing that. Done. We've grown our cities and need yet more luxuries. We've still got the problem that AI nations are swindling human players left, right, and centre with trades.

d4everman · Oct 25, 2010

Thats the games version of diplomacy, DaveGold.

ohioastronomy · Oct 25, 2010

City-states don't give you cash for extra luxuries. In the game as it is now, more than one copy of any given luxury is now useful only for production. Lovely.

Öjevind Lång · Oct 26, 2010

ohioastronomy said:
City-states don't give you cash for extra luxuries. In the game as it is now, more than one copy of any given luxury is now useful only for production. Lovely.

No, they can make other city states happy, and they can be of the kind in demand in some of your cities, triggering the "We Love the King Day". Look for that kind of luxuries and see you cities grow. In my last game, my capital had a population of 28. Also, it is by no emans impossible to tarde with other civs. It's not just such an automatic pushover as in Civ IV.

Klyden · Oct 26, 2010

ohioastronomy said:
City-states don't give you cash for extra luxuries. In the game as it is now, more than one copy of any given luxury is now useful only for production. Lovely.

You can trade extras to other positions for cash. In fact, they can and will cough up some good coin for it which also dampens their ability for science agreements. You can take that coin and use it for whatever you want including getting resources from city states instead of NPC's.

Having said that, I have gotten several 1 to 1 trades, but it is far, far less than it was and that was after making deals at a disadvantage early in the game. I have also gotten straight up science agreements as well, but it is a lot less than it was.

zonk · Oct 26, 2010

Öjevind Lång;9825355 said:
What's that supposed to mean? I simply pointed out that you can mostly get resources from the city states, and finding the money to bribe them isn't hard if you know how to play the game right. Once they have started to like you, they often continue to do so and give you fairly simple tasks to fulfill so you can continue to be their buddy.

Simply that there's no "liking" involved -- it's solely a cash swap... not "diplomacy" in any sense of the word. They most certainly don't continue to like you -- CS influence degrades, in fact. There's no relationship involved -- the amount of influence you buy is a simple function against the relationship points other civs have bought. You can modify the factor by which this bought influence degrades via the pink tech tree.

Let's just not pretend it's about "liking" -- it's a simple "buy" mechanic. You buy the alliance, which is a proxy for the resource. Other AIs might "buy" the CS away from you, and you can then "buy" them back.

rt12568 · Oct 26, 2010

It appears they will offer up a 1:1 trade if they are looking to groom you as a war ally in a certain amount of turns.

I was snubbing Monte left and right all game by refusing to open borders, not forming any pacts. I never traded with him and then out of necessity (I pissed off just about everyone else with taking a CS) I tried to trade with Monte. BAM...my first 1:1 luxury trade the entire game. Over the next few turn he proceeds to bombard me with pacts, and offers of war against other AI's. Interesting...

Txurce · Oct 26, 2010

rt12568 said:
It appears they will offer up a 1:1 trade if they are looking to groom you as a war ally in a certain amount of turns.

And in other circumstances as well. The people who are complaining about being swindled or otherwise having a hard time just haven't figured out how to outsmart the AI.

zonk · Oct 26, 2010

rt12568 said:
It appears they will offer up a 1:1 trade if they are looking to groom you as a war ally in a certain amount of turns.

I was snubbing Monte left and right all game by refusing to open borders, not forming any pacts. I never traded with him and then out of necessity (I pissed off just about everyone else with taking a CS) I tried to trade with Monte. BAM...my first 1:1 luxury trade the entire game. Over the next few turn he proceeds to bombard me with pacts, and offers of war against other AI's. Interesting...

What difficulty level?

....and BTW - just to respond to the response below this, no -- that's not diplomacy... That's just the AI feeling the wrath of the other AI sociopaths. At best, it's passive self-preservation --- diplomacy should allow for more positive influence factors, even at higher difficulty levels.

Txurce · Oct 26, 2010

zonk said:
What difficulty level?

....and BTW - just to respond to the response below this, no -- that's not diplomacy... That's just the AI feeling the wrath of the other AI sociopaths. At best, it's passive self-preservation --- diplomacy should allow for more positive influence factors, even at higher difficulty levels.

Agreed - but this has nothing to do with the fact that at present it's quite possible to trade with the AI and come out satisfied with the deal.

1.0.0.62 Patch: AI /worse/ at trade

Öjevind Lång

Deity

MadRat

Cheese Raider

DaveGold

Emperor

d4everman

Chieftain

ohioastronomy

King

Öjevind Lång

Deity

Klyden

Emperor

zonk

Prince

rt12568

Chieftain

Txurce

Deity

zonk

Prince

Txurce

Deity

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