1.0.0.62 Patch: AI /worse/ at trade

C

Chibiabos

Prince
Joined
May 24, 2005
Messages
424
The AI is absolutely refusing to trade their surplus trade resources for mine, even when they have 5 of one trade resource I lack, for one of my surplus trade resources. I tried with 5 different AIs, none of them would trade any of their surplus trade resources (that is, when they have more than 1 of a trade resources) for my cotton trade resource on a 1-for-1 basis.

The AI was already ridiculously arrogant and greedy in trade and politics, but the .62 patch is even worse. I worry this means they will be even more ridiculous when you knock out almost all of their cities about refusing to pay reparations out of their income in exchange for their not getting wiped off the face of the planet. :/
 
Actually (from my experiences) the wartime AI is a lot smarter this time. They actually know when to sue for peace and what to pay for it. (if they feel they are winning, they'll try to get to hand over some cash, if it's stagnant, they'll do a 1-1 peace treaty, if they are losing they'll fork over some war reparations).
 
For what it's worth, the Brady guide says the following on page 182:

"AI Players won't trade their luxuries cheaply. If they don't have a spare, expect them to ask a brutal, punitive price for their goods. You may need to offer about three luxuries of your own to get their attention."
 
These AIs are actually at war with one another, but not me. None indicate any distaste for me. I have not been in any wars, but they do remark i have a 'strong' military.

This thread is about AI civ trade. I have not yet tested their combat AI, but at this rate I will have little choice to since the AI will not deal trade fairly.

The AI seems to value receiving a trade good at less than 50% of what it used to, in terms of a GPT offer ... it used to offer 9 GPT for 1 surplus trade good from me; now if I start a trade deal with 9 GPT for 1 of my surplus resources and ask the AI what would make it work, they immediately add a non-surplus trade resource (that is, a trade resource I only have one of) to my surplus trade resource for that same 9 GPT it used to offer for one of my surplus trade resources.
 
I've also experienced the new problem of the AI demanding resources you only have 1 of before they'll agree to trade surplus at a one-to-one ratio. Basically the only good thing about the AI pre-patch was that it'd at least trade resources with you. Now I feel like just clicking closed all the diplomacy popups and not even bothering. They still make arrogant demands for huge sums of gold/free resources that you can only get out of by taking a relations hit, even my so-called "allies" (ones I have a pact of cooperation with/people who say things like "Always good to see you" when I open the diplomacy window). There's no way the AI would ever agree to just give you 700 gold or their only copy of a luxury resource for free, no matter how much you've done for them, yet that's what they expect from you.
 
I think the clowns in charge at Firaxis/2K just don't want you to even talk to the AI civ's. I mean... trading now is a joke, and I don't even bother. So with the broken/pointless diplomacy, i have 0 reason to even bother talking to the AI.
 
I fail to see how a more stingy/greedy AI is a "worse" AI. People would complain about everything - if the AI hands over resources/cities too easily, they would say that the AI is stupid. Now that the AI is much more calculating, people complain that the AI is "ridiculously arrogant and greedy".

I think it makes perfect sense for the AI to try and wring every drop of blood out of you in trades, especially if you are the one more in need of the happiness/income. That is what any good player would do.

I do think, however, that the AI should deal more generously with its friends/allies. If the AI is stingy all the time, then that really defeats the purpose of making friends and maintaining good relations with them.
 
CharlieM said:
For what it's worth, the Brady guide says the following on page 182:

"AI Players won't trade their luxuries cheaply. If they don't have a spare, expect them to ask a brutal, punitive price for their goods. You may need to offer about three luxuries of your own to get their attention."
Click to expand...

Does anyone know if the AI leaders treat each other in the same way they treat the human player with regard to trade? or is it just when dealing with the human player?
 
Trade option should just be removed from CIV 5 cuz there is now no point in even interacting with your neighbors except for declaring war.

AI will always want one of your luxury That you have surplus of and one nonsurplus luxury just for one surplus luxury that they own.

Thus, AI gains ten happiness, You gain nothing from the deal.

You're better off invading and killing and razing their cities for the luxury you want.
 
Callonia said:
Trade option should just be removed from CIV 5 cuz there is now no point in even interacting with your neighbors except for declaring war.

AI will always want one of your luxury That you have surplus of and one nonsurplus luxury just for one surplus luxury that they own.

Thus, AI gains ten happiness, You gain nothing from the deal.

You're better off invading and killing and razing their cities for the luxury you want.
Click to expand...


It does indeed seem that way.
 
CharlieM said:
For what it's worth, the Brady guide says the following on page 182:

"AI Players won't trade their luxuries cheaply. If they don't have a spare, expect them to ask a brutal, punitive price for their goods. You may need to offer about three luxuries of your own to get their attention."
Click to expand...

And, again, I am referring to surplus trade resources -- trade resources the AI has at least 2 of -- , one of which had a quantity of 5. Thus, the above does not apply to the OP.

Apologies if I sound flustered and frustrated, but am I referring specifically to trade resources not so described in the manual, and something that has changed between the last update and now to make the AI super stingy about trading its surplus trade resources even when it has well more than 2 available to trade.
 
Rohili said:
I fail to see how a more stingy/greedy AI is a "worse" AI. People would complain about everything - if the AI hands over resources/cities too easily, they would say that the AI is stupid. Now that the AI is much more calculating, people complain that the AI is "ridiculously arrogant and greedy".

I think it makes perfect sense for the AI to try and wring every drop of blood out of you in trades, especially if you are the one more in need of the happiness/income. That is what any good player would do.

I do think, however, that the AI should deal more generously with its friends/allies. If the AI is stingy all the time, then that really defeats the purpose of making friends and maintaining good relations with them.
Click to expand...

The AI is not more calculating, its just greedier and stingier. As was pointed out, the player gets no benefit at all from the AI's demand of one surplus (something the player has at least 2 of) and one non-surplus (something the player has only 1 of and thus would lose 5 happiness from trading) for one of the AI's surplus (something the AI has at least 2 of) trade resources, for no overall benefit whatsoever for the player (get one trade resource at the expense of one non-surplus trade resource, +5 -5 = 0) but one for the AI (the AI isn't giving up any non-surplus trade resource).

You can't see the ridiculousness of this? The AI is giving nearly nil value in happiness resources in trades. That's not smart, that's stingy and greedy to the point of hurting itself.

I'm not hurting for happiness, I had about 15 happy at the time, I just wanted more to bring golden ages more frequently.
 
Valdyr said:
That's exactly the way things stand right now.
Click to expand...

Which is changed from the previous patch, so the AI has gotten stupid-greedier in this patch.
 
In addition to being much greedier with trades I have found the AI now want a fee to sign Research Agreements. I didn't even request one from China but every couple of turns they propositioned me for a research pact where I would give them 100 gold for the privilege. I eventually relented and agreed......they then declared war on me 2 turns later and our investment money was returned (no free tech but not a burn of funds, although I guess they kept the 'fee'.....a-holes!).

Tbf they did sue for peace and pay me reparations after I gave their single file stream of warriors a beat down, so maybe they won't be suicidal with refusing peace deals.
 
Has anybody checked if the AIs willingness to trade (or how much it asks for) is in any way related to their happiness level?

Basically when they dont need your luxury IMO it is perfectly fine if they ask for a steep price since obviously you need their ressource, but they dont need yours.

But I agree that you should get a better price if you are on good terms. But at least when selling them my ressources I do get a better price when the AIs like me.

CharonJr
 
I can understand if the AI doesn't want to trade 1for1 if it already has enough happiness (it's you who's coming to trade after all. it's assumed that you need the happiness more than they do), but I hope it's done through a system that calculates the AIs actual need for happiness rather than simplistic trade 'values', which would.. well, not be diplomacy really would it.

Also,
WTF is the point of open borders?!?
I NEVER EVER give the AI open borders. there's no international trade, there's nothing. nothing.

Like someone said before, it's like firaxis don't want you to interact with the AI
 
Lightzy said:
Like someone said before, it's like firaxis don't want you to interact with the AI
Click to expand...

Aside from waging war on them.

Its another step further in dumbing down Civ V. Beat and smash the AI, but there's no real diplomacy -- the Diplomatic Victory doesn't even have anything to do with diplomacy toward other civ powers, just who dumps the most gold on city-states.

This game is even more of a Civ Rev II now than Civ V. I don't imagine the Facebook Civ will be any more of a suitable successor to Civ IV, either. :/
 
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