Some AI are ridiculous at diplomacy?

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Beleeive

Chieftain
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
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So I was playing my first game of gods and kings doing decent for a beginner (I picked up civ5 for the first time a week ago), trying out religion and espionage but mostly doing a science run (with a lot of culture from religion and such). I had become friends with almost everyone but russia who i refused to befriend many times because she'd already betrayed her past ally. Suddenly the huns fall on me with battering rams, horse archers, and swordsmen. At least 12 all together, and me and geneva together fended them off and I chased down and slaughtered those who fled.

The huns aren't great at diplomacy due to their violent nature, and soon I had multiple people denouncing them. Good game so far, though they refuse (still, 50 turns later) to make peace unless I give them a city right by my capital that I built and they have absolutely no right to.. But when I tried sending my navy against atilla I met caeser. This is where is gets interesting. Rome immediately is extremely friendly, accepts all trades, opens his borders so I can pass, asks to be my friend and I accept. Then I decide to spy on him.

Turns out he was spying on me, my spy found out he was plotting against me, I denounced him and all my allys (who also were his allys apparently) immediately start telling me I was out of line and one longtime ally (france) even denounced me. What did I do wrong, should I have just let him spy on me and eventually attack?

tl;dr some AI suck at diplomacy (huns) and some are ridiculously great at it (rome), how do you deal with an ally thats likely to betray you?
 
Ignore politics unless you really NEED something badly.

Stay neutral like switzerland and avoid DoF like the pest. If you stay neutral and strong the AI isn't likely to attack you. (try being at least 2nd or 3rd in military)
 
Beleeive said:
So I was playing my first game of gods and kings doing decent for a beginner (I picked up civ5 for the first time a week ago), trying out religion and espionage but mostly doing a science run (with a lot of culture from religion and such). I had become friends with almost everyone but russia who i refused to befriend many times because she'd already betrayed her past ally. Suddenly the huns fall on me with battering rams, horse archers, and swordsmen. At least 12 all together, and me and geneva together fended them off and I chased down and slaughtered those who fled.

The huns aren't great at diplomacy due to their violent nature, and soon I had multiple people denouncing them. Good game so far, though they refuse (still, 50 turns later) to make peace unless I give them a city right by my capital that I built and they have absolutely no right to.. But when I tried sending my navy against atilla I met caeser. This is where is gets interesting. Rome immediately is extremely friendly, accepts all trades, opens his borders so I can pass, asks to be my friend and I accept. Then I decide to spy on him.

Turns out he was spying on me, my spy found out he was plotting against me, I denounced him and all my allys (who also were his allys apparently) immediately start telling me I was out of line and one longtime ally (france) even denounced me. What did I do wrong, should I have just let him spy on me and eventually attack?
Click to expand...

Denouncing someone in "revenge" doesn't work - denouncing is mostly a way of making friends with other civs that hate the one you're denouncing, or making your own friends think worse of that civ (as long as they aren't friends with it). But it will make their friends dislike you, and if enough of them denounce you your own friends are likely to as well (as with France above). It's usually advisable to check who they're friends with in Global Relations before deciding to denounce.

You should tell him first to stop spying on you. It may be (though I haven't confirmed this rigorously, it does seem to make a difference) that telling him to stop and then denouncing him will lessen the negative effects of your denunciation with other civs, since you've given fair warning.
 
VikingHaag said:
Ignore politics unless you really NEED something badly.

Stay neutral like switzerland and avoid DoF like the pest. If you stay neutral and strong the AI isn't likely to attack you. (try being at least 2nd or 3rd in military)
Click to expand...
I always have the strongest military so this run I decided I wasn't going to focus on that, now I see where I went wrong. It was easy enough to raise one for defense while holding atilla back, the AI is truly terrible at combat (at least on prince difficulty).

Units get expensive if they're just sitting around for 50 turns doing nothing..
 
Just because he was plotting against you doesn't mean he will attack you, man. Especially if he's far away and have closer enemies to deal with.
 
PhilBowles said:
Denouncing someone in "revenge" doesn't work - denouncing is mostly a way of making friends with other civs that hate the one you're denouncing, or making your own friends think worse of that civ (as long as they aren't friends with it). But it will make their friends dislike you, and if enough of them denounce you your own friends are likely to as well (as with France above). It's usually advisable to check who they're friends with in Global Relations before deciding to denounce.

You should tell him first to stop spying on you. It may be (though I haven't confirmed this rigorously, it does seem to make a difference) that telling him to stop and then denouncing him will lessen the negative effects of your denunciation with other civs, since you've given fair warning.
Click to expand...
I told him to stop and then denounced him the same turn, should I hate waited, or just let it go all together because he has so many friends?
 
Tachii said:
Just because he was plotting against you doesn't mean he will attack you, man. You're a bit too paranoid, especially if he's far away and have closer enemies to deal with.
Click to expand...

I was already annoyed by the fact he told me to lay off geneva which had been my ally since the ancient era.. and since it was my first run through I figured conspiring against me meant he was going to attack me, what else does it mean he could be doing?
 
Beleeive said:
I told him to stop and then denounced him the same turn, should I hate waited, or just let it go all together because he has so many friends?
Click to expand...

If he has a lot of friends it's probably a bad idea altogether unless you have more.

Maybe wait until he tech steals again?
 
Beleeive said:
I was already annoyed by the fact he told me to lay off geneva which had been my ally since the ancient era.. and since it was my first run through I figured conspiring against me meant he was going to attack me, what else does it mean he could be doing?
Click to expand...

Mostly probably trying to steal your techs. And if you catch him in the act and forgive him, then you're more likely to get DoFs from him.
 
Beleeive said:
I always have the strongest military so this run I decided I wasn't going to focus on that, now I see where I went wrong. It was easy enough to raise one for defense while holding atilla back, the AI is truly terrible at combat (at least on prince difficulty).

Units get expensive if they're just sitting around for 50 turns doing nothing..
Click to expand...

They are a lot less expensive than losing a war. An AI will not (usually) attack an opponent with a much stronger and/or more advanced army. If you want to play peacefully, keep a great army around.
 
hobbsyoyo said:
They are a lot less expensive than losing a war. An AI will not (usually) attack an opponent with a much stronger and/or more advanced army. If you want to play peacefully, keep a great army around.
Click to expand...

I need wars to even stay entertained really, usually I build a strong army and enough funds to withstand the happiness costs associated with war and eventually get bored and conquer the closest civ just because I can.

Being attacked was never my problem in the first place, the attack atilla brought down on me (from across the continent literally, must've took him at least 6 turns just to get to me) wasn't the issue it was ceasars backstabbing and the fight he was friends with almost every civ lol.
 
Tachii said:
Ah. That's the worst denouncement you can do, then. Never denounce on your friends.
Click to expand...

Is that why all my friends got so pissed? I guess I learned my lesson, lol. You would think they wouldn't spy on their friends either :\
 
Yeah in a DoF if you denounce them it's considered a "backstab". Next time if a civ denounce you while you're in a DoF it will display that in the global politics screen. Your friends will be angry at that civ, too.

As for spying on your friends, if they're ahead in tech, wouldn't you try to steal their techs?
 
Tachii said:
Yeah in a DoF if you denounce them it's considered a "backstab". Next time if a civ denounce you while you're in a DoF it will display that in the global politics screen. Your friends will be angry at that civ, too.

As for spying on your friends, if they're ahead in tech, wouldn't you try to steal their techs?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info, that definitely helps going forward.

&&Yeah but I have no problem admitting I'll backstab any civ if there's benefit in it for me, I figured the AI would take alliances more seriously than me.
 
In real politics, nations befriend each other openly in order to gain access to territory and plant spies. The game simulates this rather well. :) Just don't assume that a DoF truly means "DoF" and you'll be okay. Always check the "friend" periodically to see what they are really doing.

Also, you have to have DoF for Research Agreements (as well as embassies) so keep that in mind.
 
AiTenshi1 said:
In real politics, nations befriend each other openly in order to gain access to territory and plant spies. The game simulates this rather well. :) Just don't assume that a DoF truly means "DoF" and you'll be okay. Always check the "friend" periodically to see what they are really doing.

Also, you have to have DoF for Research Agreements (as well as embassies) so keep that in mind.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure you DON'T have to have DoF for embassies? Because I get offers almost immediately when I meet civs and I never DoF anyone.

but otherwise thanks for the advice.
 
Let me start off by saying welcome to the forums Beleeive!

Now this might be slightly off topic but I feel that when the player begins to "game" the systems things become less interesting. It's obvious that the AI is not fantastic at anything really but if you focus on that as an issue you're playing the game wrong.

I find it more enjoyable to just roll with the punches and embrace the AI's quirks rather than take issue with them. Given that the decisions the AI make are often erratic and unpredictable I feel that it creates a more dynamic experience than if I knew exactly how to "game" the AI's thought process.
 
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