Dune University 1

Jester Fool

Emperor
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
1,181
Location
Katy, TX
Welcome to the first Dune Wars forum game. The goal is to share strategies on how to successfully win playing the Dune Wars mod (similar to forum games posted in Strategy & Tips) and to have fun.

Our leader :


The settings :


And finally the start :


I really like Rhombur. Political is a good trait to help expand your borders, and every Dune fan knows - the spice must flow! Mechanized improves the effectiveness of vehicles, mechs, suspensor craft and thopters - so abuse of these units should be mandatory. Also, being Ix, mechs should give us an interesting way to wage war.

Wait a minute..we need the save! :lol:
View attachment DU1AutoSave_Initial_10191AG.CivBeyondSwordSave
 
Initial thoughts :
We start with Mining and Water Conservation. We have ore (production) and can fit 4 wind traps in the BFC if we settle in place. Sand Verbena gives +1 happiness (would need to research Desert Survival) but we are limited by health early on. After moving the soldiers (1N and 1S) we should be able to determine if we need to move our settler to capture any health resources nearby in our capital's BFC. Unless we have health resources, Arrakis Habitation (for the Clinic building) looks to be a priority. Also, since we have ore, beelining Education (to build Filmbook Archives) looks like a good move and to fend off smugglers (especially Waterstealers later on) we will need Defense Tactics fairly early. Thoughts?
 
Cool!

We had the succession games a while ago which did some of this, but those were on a much older version of the mod. Still worth a read though: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=340372

Agree with your strategic summary in general, but I would probably settle 1E unless something else is revealed.
You are political so you don't need to care about the Mysticism line, and you're not trying to start a religion. You don't have spice nearby so spice extraction is not a priority.
After those early techs you will probably want to consider the (expensive) +1 water from windtraps tech (I forget the name), and the tech that gives quads, which are super powerful as Ix. Even if they can't take cities, you can consider a pillage-choking war on a neighbor; pillaging all their stuff with a couple of quads can destroy their economy and take them out of the running as a serious power.
 
The site lacks any early spice fields or good commerce plots, so the going will be a little rough at the start, and also has no health bonuses unless there are some on the other side of the mesas to the east. But man that's a lot of mesa! which means lots of production and water, plus the ore. This spot would be great once you've got an economy going.

I'd definitely send each soldier to a nearby mesa to see what's around, but I wouldn't go far with the settler, it's a nice spot. Definitely need to see what's over those mesas to to the east.
 
There is a hint of spice to the south, 3S from settler. Move E-soldier 1E to take a look at the basin to the east, and the other soldier 1S to see what is down there. Best site for settlement is 1E; 5 windtraps can be set up and 2 basin sites for village growth with +1 commerce. Maybe, should send settler 1NW to look around; this will mean postponing starting first city but might pay dividends if something important revealed.
 
Turnset 1; part 1 (~turn 29)
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After moving the starting soldiers, barrel cactus and spice was revealed to the south. I thought about settling on the ore but IMO, a second city (with enough water) would be better play to get both the spice and barrel cactus. Ore is such a strong tile (especially late game) that wasting it would be sub-optimal. I also want desert access (plan on being on the offensive) so suspensor craft can move optimally. This will come in handy once suspensor carriers have been built (late game but planning for it early is good strategy). So, SIP it is.
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The first botanical stations have been found. Seeing a spice blow and 5 spice that are not on deep desert (so only need exploration to access) I decided to research Exploration while building a worker. After that Spice Extraction will be next. The commerce will be needed to fund expansion and science. So far, this is a pretty good start.
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I love me some coffee. Ix will be a happier empire because of it.
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Ground water on sink/graben is the best water tile in the game IMO and I am quite happy with this result.
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I find a small stockpile of spice in another botanical station. Also, it looks like going for Spice Extraction early will pay off. I will definitely want to settle cities to capture as much spice as I can.
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The worker is finished and will move to improve the ore right away. It is easily the best tile to work right now since we are limited by health. Wind traps can be built afterwards. I will build a barracks->soldier->idle. Early on, all units will be promoted to shock (anti-melee). After Spice Extraction, tech path will be Desert Survival then Defense Tactics. I don't want to wait to get out better defensive units. If waterstealers show up (and they will :lol:), infantry will be needed to handle them (with shock promotion hence the early barracks).
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The first AI is met. Roma usually is a good tech trading partner. I will want to have good relations with her early. She came from the SE so I need to explore this direction further and determine a good blocking city location.
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The hammers will be quite useful once Defense Tactics is in. Research will then be a beeline to Education. I will need Desert Trade to hook up the ore but will research that once the Archives have been started. The plan for builds will be infantry x2->settler->clinic->infantry->settler->house library->Filmbook Archives.
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Resources and dotmap on turn 29.
 
It's a nice starting spot, hopefully the spice doesn't dry up before you get to most of it. You've got a lot of settler building to do to beat the barbs to it too. Best get some infantry keeping watch over those city sites, or hope the barbs settle good spots and take them from 'em :king:.
 
I would have settled 1E; seeing graben over there just reinforces that, and all you would have lost is useless terrain. I don't think desert access is very important at all; its not like you need desert access to build anything. And for combat purposes, if you're fighting a lot with suspensors around your capital, then you're already in trouble.

I don't find beating barb cities important for city placement; they're not that hard to capture once you get a decent unit (ie anything beyond infantry) and then you can either keep them or raze them.

I generally hold off on assigning promotions until I actually need them. If a melee barbarian is approaching, then take shock, otherwise ignore them.

Roma is a good tech-trading partner because she is a total slut, diplomatically speaking. She'll trade with anyone, and then backstab them without a thought. Very mercenary. [Also, be wary about her if you haven't turned "no tech brokering" on, because if you trade her a tech she will tend to immediately trade it on to everyone else.]
So good tech-trading partner, but not a good ally.
For allies, probably best to see how the religions fall, at least in the early game.

Exploration enabled trade on rock, so you shouldn't need desert trade to hook the ore up.

Dotmap looks good.

Also, for posting; keeping the main text in post while putting the pictures in individual spoilers would be easier to read.
 
Roma is a good tech-trading partner because she is a total slut
:lol: this made my day
Also, for posting; keeping the main text in post while putting the pictures in individual spoilers would be easier to read.
I agree with that. Allows you to open each picture individually then close it to move on.
I generally hold off on assigning promotions until I actually need them. If a melee barbarian is approaching, then take shock, otherwise ignore them.
It's not a bad strategy, but I could never deal with a million little blue haloed units running around. I do very similar to Jester is the early game, especially if there is a lot of open ground around to spawn barbs. Waterstealers are nearly a certainty in such a case, so I'll try to have at least one shock guy near each city to keep them from plundering all my precious resources.

As far as barb cities, if you are going for education and trying to get imperial or choam first, it's often necessary to hold off on researching offensive units for a while, in which case they can be a pain. If I'm planning on getting some offensive units out quickly, they can be a good alternative to settlers :borg:. The extra cash from capturing them is nice too. It's also easier if you can catch them while mostly guarded by waterstealers, once they have infantry, quads and thopters become an expensive unit with poor odds against them, best to go for bladesmen.

But with his plan to beeline education first, it might be a while before he can take them down, better to just preempt the situation if you can.
 
Turnset 1; part 2 (~turn 65)
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The first critical tech (survival being priority #1). Infantry promoted with shock should allow me to smuggler bust. I will fortify units on mesa and cave tiles near future city sites to prevent smuggler cities from spawning.
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The next AI is met. I despise the Bene Tleilax and warring with them is always painful. Fun to play as them but DEFINITELY NOT fun to play against. Hopefully they are not close by, but if they are, a rush to take them out might be in order. My motto is "kill the Tleilaxu". :lol:
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Paul Muad'Dib is met. He is surly and at some point will adopt Arrakis Paradise, so I add him to the "to kill" list. :lol:
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I consider Arrakis Habitation a key early tech (especially for the Harkonnens). It allows the clinic building (+2 health) and more importantly it leads to Education and Feudalism, both of which IMO are critical to get ASAP.
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Settler is done and will be sent to the block city site. The garrison infantry is already in place so we can send the settler unescorted without worrying about smugglers.
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I only have one worker so another worker is needed ASAP. I will use the worker I have already to improve more spice tiles. Might be better to make a wind trap first, but I want to grab the spice as a priority.
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Change of plans. Beware the waterstealer. Luckily, I am not still rocking soldiers so should be relatively safe. I move the worker to build a wind trap instead of improving the spice since waterstealers can move about desert tiles.
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Roma offers a very good trade. I take it and now can proceed to researching Feudalism. Feudalism will open up a number of key techs and founding Imperial is a good side benefit. Serfdom and Hereditary Rule are important early civics so researching Feudalism quickly is usually a very good play.
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I meet Beast Rabban. You have to keep a wary eye on him (aggressive AI who likes to war) but he normally doesn't tech too well. He also likes to demand stuff but if you play along, good diplo is not too hard to achieve. Think Monty (vanilla civ) - dangerous but manageable. I also notice this turn that I was not the first to Education. I stop producing a settler and start a House Library so I can build the Filmbook Archives as I do not want the Bene Tleilax to get it. I have ore so should be able to get it before him.
 
so you shouldn't need desert trade to hook the ore up
The ore is on rugged terrain unfortunately, so yes I need desert trade.
I don't find beating barb cities important for city placement; they're not that hard to capture once you get a decent unit (ie anything beyond infantry) and then you can either keep them or raze them
I focus mainly on tech early game. I don't particularly want to waste hammers on taking smuggler cities, no matter the gold you get as plunder. Since you will need a defensive unit (at least) in any city you found, it is more hammer efficient to fortify an infantry unit on a mesa near your future city sites which prevents smuggler cities from spawing. I find that I can keep a high science rate and insure that I have room to expand cheaply by spawn busting. However, later in the game, once I have core cities up, I will send units to capture smuggler cities - just don't want to deal with them early on when I focus on getting a tech lead.
 
Not a bad start position. Since this is supposed to be Dune University, let me just say that once the southern prospect was revealed I would have moved my settler to the spot just NWof the ore. This would open up two perfect spots for later settlement. The first would be 1NE of the Nitrates; the other 1NE of the new Coffee Plantation. That would be optimal coverage in my book.
Still it is a very strong starting position, especially with the three waters to the east.
 
The next AI is met. I despise the Bene Tleilax and warring with them is always painful. Fun to play as them but DEFINITELY NOT fun to play against. Hopefully they are not close by, but if they are, a rush to take them out might be in order. My motto is "kill the Tleilaxu".
Warring with them is much less painful as Ix, because much of your army will be vehicles and suspensors, who aren't affected by plague. It can often be nice having them as an enemy, because no-one really cares if you attack them; they aren't anyone else's friend.
I find that rushing the Tleilaxu is often very tough because of plague, and that they're much easier to take out in the midgame.

Agree that feudalism is very strong, possibly too strong. I've always wondered if Hereditary Rule should be moved elsewhere, or if the serfdom build speed should be scaled back, its such a no-brainer.

The ore is on rugged terrain unfortunately, so yes I need desert trade.
Ah, true! My bad. Didn't notice.

Good luck on getting the library, but with a capital thats size 3 you might not get it.

Another request for individual spoiler tags for pictures....

moved my settler to the spot just SW of the ore
SW of the ore is a desert tile?

I also think that "fitting in cities" is not a priority; my personal priority is normally to maximize the water income for a single city, rather than building more cities. Quite different from vanilla civ in this respect, where you tend to want to maximize the number of cities in a given space.
 
Another request for individual spoiler tags for pictures....
It just took me a while to fix. :p But you are right - all future posts will have them since it is really much easier to read. :blush:
 
my personal priority is normally to maximize the water income for a single city, rather than building more cities
Which is exactly what I will try to do. Totally agree with this philosophy. Maintenance will be a problem so quality cities early on is going to be better long term. I might build 6-8 cities, everything else I will take by force.
 
Turnset 1; part 3 (~turn 89) :
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I am indeed first to Feudalism. I don't switch just yet since eventually (once it spreads) another AI will demand I switch to "their" religion. Research will be directed to Great Houses since founding CHOAM would be a much needed economy boost (Choam Headquaters, once built, gives +2 gold per spice).
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The tech situation at turn 77.
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I agree to adopt Imperial for the diplo benefit with Roma.
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I make another good trade with a pleased Roma (having accepted "her" religion).
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Beast Rabban demands Education, which I give him. I could probably refuse but I would rather he get mad at someone else right now. I will deal with him later once I start massing offensive units.
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I am able to found CHOAM and will research Law of Arrakis next. Tribunals will be needed to keep research high and Propaganda Corps is a good wonder to build since I have ore. Filmbook Archives will be built next turn and then the capital will finish the settler that had been started so I can found my third city.
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Tech situation at turn 89. So far so good. That wraps up the first turnset. Thoughts and criticisms are welcome (especially the latter).;)
 
So, you got the religions, but you are probably well behind on cities, population and infrastructure.

Expansion time! Build cities, build growth infrastructure, get techs with tile yield bonuses.

Are any enemies close enough to get to you by land? If so, you might need some quads.

Once you have a decent population, then you might want to tech for spice economy and offworld trade (and get a landing stage built for Ixian Weapons) and then head up to Chemical Explosives for the first Mech unit, and then suspensors tech. If you get some mechs out early they are *nasty*, and can kick in anyone else hard.

It's funny how off the timing is; I'm so used to Epic speed, where everything is much slower, and where it's much harder to just do a straight tech push for religions without any military.
 
So, you got the religions, but you are probably well behind on cities, population and infrastructure.
Not really. I have 2 cities and the AIs have 3 each. What I do have is a tech lead, plenty of city sites with garrison troops waiting for settlers and will be able to fuel rapid expansion as I build Tribunals (which I should have by the 4th city). My science rate should not fall below 70% which will allow me to get key techs quickly.
Expansion time! Build cities, build growth infrastructure, get techs with tile yield bonuses.
I normally expand somewhat slowly early on, but IMO keeping tech rate high is worth it. Having said that, I am about to start spamming cities. Having Feudalism will allow me to get cities online quickly and grow bigger. I didn't really need to spam settlers early since I have quite a bit of territory, hence the need to fogbust.
Are any enemies close enough to get to you by land?
Not really. Ordos is kind of close, but we share religions and she is pleased with me. Although it is possible she could back stab me, I have not played a game yet where that has happened when diplo was pleased or higher.
Once you have a decent population, then you might want to tech for spice economy and offworld trade (and get a landing stage built for Ixian Weapons) and then head up to Chemical Explosives for the first Mech unit, and then suspensors tech. If you get some mechs out early they are *nasty*, and can kick in anyone else hard.
Actually, that is exactly what I hope to do. I also intend to get Sapho Juice as well and will probably have Mentats out super early.
It's funny how off the timing is; I'm so used to Epic speed, where everything is much slower, and where it's much harder to just do a straight tech push for religions without any military.
I chose Feudalism for the civics value mainly. CHOAM, although a religion is more valuable for the commerce boost. I intend to get lots and lots of spice and CHOAM headquaters will bring in a lot of commerce later in the game (by the time I really need it due to conquest). I have enough military for the map circumstances. If I would have had a close neighbor, then I would have done a bladesman rush (with quads shortly after the initial wave). In this case, with no close AIs, building military just slows down your tech rate. By the time the AI start getting frisky, I will have plenty of defensive units which most likely will be far superior to anything they can field. That is the main benefit of controlled expansion vs fast expansion.
 
Turset 2; part 1 (turn ~113) :
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Since I almost never self-research Stillsuits, I make this trade with the Harkonnens. Now I will be able to constuct spice harvesters in the deep desert. Stillsuits also allows sandworkers to be built once Spice Industry is discovered (and Arrakis Spice civic is adopted). A good trade IMO.
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Paul demands Education, and I refuse. I am his worst enemy, so giving in to his unreasonable demand won't help the diplo. I will keep an eye on him though. This turn the capital finishes Filmbook Archives and will build an infantry next. My first GP will be a Great Scientist (due in 19 turns).
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Roma decides to demand Feudalism from me. I refuse, but do end up trading Feudalism for Dune Topography, another tech I do not self-research. Since she is at pleased, I don't think twice about the diplo hit from refusing her demand.
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Early game, I try to economize on hammers to keep science rate high. The trade off is that, except for the immediate area, scouting is somewhat lacking. However, the Harkonnens provide a map for the trivial price of Dune Topography.
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Law of Arrakis is in. Now research will be towards Culture of Dune. I have big plans for the free Great Noble. There is 0% chance of not getting to this tech first (nobody even has Law of Arrakis yet).
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The third Ixian city is founded. I am only one city behind the leaders (in city count). Once the capital has finished the infantry it is building, I will start on Propaganda Corps, another Wonder which builds quicker with ore (+2:) per city on this land mass). Science is 80% (48:science:/turn) at -2:gold:/turn. The new city starts on a worker immediately because I am seriously behind in worker turns. I lost a worker to a waterstealer earlier (mainly due to not scouting - could not see him hanging out in the desert).
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A misplay on my part. I change my civics after I noticed the Bene Tleilax changing into Serfdom and Hereditary Rule. Opps! :blush:
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Lady Margot Fenring is the next AI that is met. That leaves one left to encounter.
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The tech situation at turn 109.
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I am first to Culture of Dune (as expected) and now have a Great Nobleman (freebie) and a Great Scientist. I start researching Faith to allow the Great Nobleman to bulb something useful.
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The Great Scientist is used to bulb Human Potential. Meritocracy is a good civic (+50% GP generation) but the main draw is that it leads to Mental Discipline (which allows Mentats to be built). A very key tech, even better when it can be researched for essentially "free".
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Piss off Scytale..we don't serve your kind here.
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I make a very good trade with Roma. I normally never build mines (unless a strategic resource) so Energy Sources will allow me to start improving production tiles (mesa that can not have a wind trap built on it). Turbines, IMO, are the best generic production improvement for mesa tiles. The map she included is just gravy.
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The last AI, Duke Armand Ecaz is met.
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I make this trade with Armand which makes him pleased. Unfortunately, he demands Desert Plantation after the trade, I decline, and he is back to cautious. Oh Well, whatever.
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Now that Faith is researched, I can use the Great Nobleman I received from being first to Culture of Dune to bulb Caste Systems - big plans complete. ;) Water Economy is the next tech that will be researched and once a Mushtamal is built in the capital, Wet Planet Conservatory (+1:health: and +1:) in ALL cities) will be built. Coincidentally, WPC builds 25% faster with ore as well.
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The tech situation on turn 113. Pretty solid tech lead and I am running my science slider at 75% (45:science:/turn) at +1:gold:/turn. Not bad considering.
 
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