The Deity Challenge Lineup #12 - The Maya

Reading most popular and most current deity tier lists (not that I am a big fan of it) I realise that never played one of the top civs - The Maya.

However I have feeling that it's better on paper than in reality - when first great scientist is nice, other GPs increasing counter not so.

So is Maya really so powerful? - judging by results on this DLC not so, but maybe just map is bad - gonna try it in free time.

EDIT: Forgot about Pyramids - well it's really good building probably giving Maya one level up :)

They are very good but not as much as the real top ones.
 
Turn 289 CV. First culture win on Deity!

Maya ARE pretty great.

Spoiler :

Turn 0-10: Where to settle? Go south for Petra attempt, or not? I end up settling on the hill next to the mountain. I pop a village for mining. Yay! And then for population. Yay! Lotta ivory around here. Culture ruin! This is going well.

Turn 10-20: Steal a worker from Montezuma. I’m always worried doing this. Harald never gave me peace in other scenarios, lets hope this war ends. Fortunately, it does. Build a pyramid. These are pretty cool.

Turn 20-30: Steal worker form Mbanza Kongo. This turns out to be a mistake (I get one more) but they build defenses quickly, and I can’t steal with a warrior. Maybe militaristic city states build larger militaries? That would make sense.

Turn 30-50 I get a pantheon! Love pyramids. I grab desert folklore. Very good. DOF with Dido, and Montezuma covets my lands, even though I am way down here. Found Tikal on Turn 36, and my third city turns out to be major forward settled on Venice, such that I grabbed his salt and Truffles right from under his nose. Hehehe.

Turn 50-80 Turn 62 Great prophet, and I go with Shinto, because why not? I take Tithe, I’m always underwhelmed by the other options. Get pagodas, which I am happy about. Found my last city on turn 70, on the gems near Kabul. My plan was to take a GG from the Long Count, because I won’t be generating generals myself, and it won’t increase the counter for the rest, and bomb Kabul for the silver. I never do this, ultimately, because I maintain good relations with Kabul, and once it is bought, with Venice.

Turn 80-100 Turn 81 Petra gets built. Problem: the culture boundaries are allergic to desert hills. They literally go EVERYWHERE but to those hills, and I end up having to buy each one. Ridiculous. I look at the Solomon mine location, wanting to build there. Ultimately, I don’t, because I am afraid of Dido attacking me there. She actually gets overwhelmed early by Monty, but then I am afraid of him. Thinking back, I probably should have, though it may have also gotten me into trouble. My Bpt was only so so, and my happiness was very high throughout the game, so I think I should have. Or I might have gotten killed by the AI from this continent or the other.

Turn 100-120 Finally get my NC on turn 105. T110, someone is in the Renaissance. That’s not good.

Turn 120-140 I don’t know what the Sistine Chapel looks like. I don’t know if anyone is building it. C’mon, c’mon, don’t build it… Got it on 131! I’m going to live and love the **** out of God’s peculiar light. Hey, there’s iron here, too. Some late bronze working. Turn 133 is Great Admiral time! Fittingly Magellan, and I plan to sail across the world.

Its Deity, and no one has any money. I get the sneaking suspicion that I am on the short bus equivalent of continents. Should have built another city, too. No one is going for the Solomon mines location.

Turn 140-160 Enhance Shinto, and take swords to plowshares. In terms of Enhancer beliefs, what’s good? I take religious texts, but I really have no idea. Aztecs, of all people, find everyone. I don’t think they even have ships. My Great Admiral spawned on the wrong side to find everyone. I don’t think I ever even got to make a proposal in the WC the rest of the game. Dido is suddenly hostile. Why?

Wait a second: Dido, Dandolo, and Montezuma… I’m on the island of traitors! Is that the theme? I think Dido and Dandolo are deceptive or disloyal or something. Or maybe I’m just being paranoid.

Turn 160-200 So everyone built the wonders I wanted, like Pisa, Globe, and Taj mahal while I thought about building them. Machu picchu, here I come! 6 turns later, pointless, but it looks pretty cool. It… really doesn’t do much for a tradition game, does it? Dido is Friendly again. OK. Carthage got captured, maybe that’s unbalanced her. I Oxford into radio on turn 180. Something tells me I am way behind. Sweet Freedom, here I come…

Turn 200-240 I lose the world fair, badly. I rarely win, and I think I am supposed to win it most of the time. I take alternatives to try and blast culture, with culture sites, of which there are a bunch around. Also build Eiffel, so I am feeling a little better here. Carthage finally gets eliminated, and suddenly everyone is friendly to me. Was Carthage spreading bad rumors about me or something? I had a friendly relationship with Carthage, maybe that poisoned everyone against me. On turn 230 I put full jets on science, so I can start bulbing later.

Turn 240-280 Turn 250 Internet, and the heat is on, because Seijong just finished Apollo 5 turns earlier. Turn 251 Seijong is building Hubble. Uh oh. Turn 265, suddenly Seijong builds great Firewall, abandoning Hubble. My tourism is at 391, but is halved on him. Guess who is going to get a lot of obnoxious music tours? Korea is denouncing me, but Friendly-like in terms of deals? Weird. I try to steal Hubble to slow Seijong down, but he completes it when I have three turns left on it. Not in his capital. That is going to make things annoying to check on. I’ve filled on Tradition, aesthetics, rationalism, and gotten media culture in freedom, so I open exploration on turn 279 to build Louvre to try and speed things up.

Turn 284 Should I declare war on Seijong (and almost certainly die? There are mobile artillery hanging around.). He’s got SS cockpit, stasis chamber, one booster. He knows six techs I don’t, and that counts to exactly what he needs to build all components. I dread clicking next turn. I have a spy, but he is building parts in places other than his capital, so I don’t know what’s building. I finish Louvre, create great works, and shave a turn off my end game. I need to last just 5 turns. He completes two more boosters on the next two turns. One turn left… and POCATELLO completes the SS engine (but no boosters!), almost giving me a heart attack. I win on turn 289. I need a drink.


 
Wouldn't be bad if not a fact that I didn't manage to found religion (last one gone on 66 turn - couldn't do anything about it since I already rush bought all pyramids except in capital) and Aztecs religion is a crap and probably will get it sooner or later.

Due to abound of luxes on map I went 4 cities NC (79T) and got my first GP on 86 turn.

Probably will go DiploV since haven't done it yet in DCL.
 

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That's really fast tech-ing, IronFighterXXX. Could you please tell me how those 115 BPT break down? That's without universities or with?

Also, what was your build order please?
 
I've bought university in cap (and have also academy there).

Build order was sth like that ;

Cap: scout,scout, pyramid, 3* settler, granary, library, NC, watermill

Other cities: pyramid (bought), granary or library, watermill or worker

I was at war with all civs for workers and to pillage caravans - after last patch warmonger penalty is almost nonexistent in ancient era ( as long as you don't take cities).

BTW: Venice seems to be broken on deity - hasn't used first starting GM at all (is it always a case?)
 
I've already noticed that Deity Venice don't use their MoV fast. They obviously don't see it as a Settler and will wait to use it. I've definitely seen them use it, but rarely before T30.
Most of the time when i'm around they don't use it cause i DoW them and kill it :groucho:
Maybe being at war have disrupted their logic and they kept it at home waiting for the war to be over.
Huh? He annexed a CS already on your screenshot.
He was talking about the first MoV. At deity they start the game with one, to compensate for not having a settler. You would think they will take a CS right from the start but they don't.
 
He was talking about the first MoV. At deity they start the game with one, to compensate for not having a settler.

Yes, the first MoV is still wandering near my borders :D
 
I've won after second WC session, chose order thinking that one GS more could be useful, but wasn't need.

I bribed Montezuma to war against Venice after I saw troops near my border, and with trick on second sreenshot I kept him at war for over 70 turn! ( in which time he was loosing ~one trop per turn).

Near end I allowed him conquered Venice to see how it affect delegates needed to win WL vote (it didn't affect at all)

Does somebody know exactly what affect amount of delegates needed to win WL vote?.

In my game before info era Venice annexed one CS, Celts conquered another one and Aztecks conquered Dido - amount droped from 40 to 38, but after Montezuma conquered Venice as I mention before it didn't affect it at all (still 38)

Does only CS count?
 

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I asked, because I was pretty sure civs also counted some time ago (but maybe just forgot - Diplo was never my favorite victory)
 
I've had T275, 276, and 277 science victories, and am disappointed this one is slightly slower given how good a start it was on this attempt. I had some previous attempts looking for my first cultural victory, but apparently I'm pretty terrible at those.

There are some similarities with my DCL #11 game. I included a fair bit of notes this time and would be curious to hear some feedback on how to improve my science game.

Spoiler :

Full Tradition, 3 in commerce (Mercantilism), full Rationalism, 7 in Freedom.
T28 Desert Folklore
*Aztecs reformed Jesuit before I founded; going to plant any prophets and adopt their religion
T65 Theology! Thanks to 4 incoming (and 2 outgoing) trade routes; I prioritized buying two caravans
T71 started 4 city National College. Bought library in 4th city earlier. I waited a few turns to plant my Great Prophet to use it as a forest chop towards NC. Looking back, this may have been a mistake and perhaps I should have planted the prophets on grassland.
T72 1st Mayan Bonus: Great Engineer, used for T77 Petra in city with potential for 9 desert hills (plus built on 1), 4 next to Oasis, 3 with sheep, and 2 ‘regular’ desert hill tiles. Could be an awesome city
T86 finished NC, planted 2nd Great Prophet (on hill again), select 2nd Mayan Bonus to be Great Scientist.
T87 planted GS on grassland; science at 67
T96 Education. Bought 2 universities with cash right away; still waiting for Monty to bring me his wonderful Jesuit religion. Science at 103!
T98 unmet player entered Renaissance
T101 3rd Mayan Bonus: Great Admiral
T106 Acoustics/Renaissance
T107 bought 4th university (built 1 in Petra city, bought 3 with cash), science at 140. Have 570 faith saved up; hopefully Monty helps me use these on public schools
T112 opened Rationalism; science up to 161
T117 4th Mayan Bonus: Great Merchant, down to Kabul (cultural CS)
T133 5th Mayan Bonus: Great Writer
T148 Scientific Theory: immediately bought 4 Public Schools (3 with faith, 1 with gold). Science @ 340pt. Also finished Porcelain Tower on this turn; will wait a few turns, but not the full 8, to use GS.
T152 6th Mayan Bonus: Great Artist. Save for a few turns to pop Golden Age with Universal Suffrage
T154 Finished Oxford. Popped GS, finishing Electricity. Radio for free.
T155 Adopted Freedom. Had natural social policy finish on this turn, so took level 2 universal suffrage. Started Golden Age with GA I’d been saving.
~T160 (for quite a while) – paid Venice for open borders, surrounded his capital with 5 lands units to block Monty from capturing
T178 Bulbed 3 GS to hit Plastics in order to purchase 1 Research Lab in my last city with Jesuit, just before Poca converted it. Will wait on Big Ben to purchase other labs. T182 Finished Big Ben, bought 2 labs with gold. Science up to 634
T183 7th Mayan Bonus: Great Prophet, plant on Petra hill
T200 all 4 research labs up (for last few turns), working all scientists (only), science at 728. Capital is 26 pop, other cities 17, 17, and 18 (Petra)
T205 only really need 3 more social policies: Mercantilism in Commerce (25% off), finisher in Rationalism, and level 3 ‘buy spaceship parts’ in Freedom
T234 8th Mayan Bonus: Great Musician
T278 Science Victory. Messed up a little on the timing; I was waiting for the GS that was coming on T279, but then realized I didn’t need it. Only a couple turns difference.

I felt like there wasn't room to peacefully expand to a 5th city.
Monty DOWed me very close to the end, which is why happiness went negative.

Spoiler :


 
Science victory on T263 on a not so peaceful continent.

Spoiler :

Some pre-knowledge since this is one of Acken's LP.

Settled next to the mountain (normally on continents I beeline for the coast but obs+petra+desert folklore chance is too much to pass up)

4 city Lib; 1 worker from monty and rest from kongo CS. Venice steals desert foklore (sigh...), Carthage has desert so i write-off petra rush. With Mount Kili I forumlate a new plan to kill everyone with altitude crossbows (monty and Dido? better strike first) before a Baktun GAd meets the other continent for new trading partners.

Fail at farming exp from kongo CS; Venice founds the most crap religion ever and spreads it to my goddess of the hunt cities... I walk my comp bowmen over to him and take venice at T101.

Machinary T100, Monty builds the Great Wall so I am forced to found another city and burn my only GG to get to teodsjfakdsfja (T121). Take peace for 10 turns before declaring on him again, raze 1 more city and am about to take 1 more when Poca shows up on a boat (T144)... Plans of continent domination are ruined so I take 2 cities from Monty in a peace deal and sell them to Dido (she razed 1!)

GAd slowly explores the world and I consolidate on the 7 city lib empire. at T180 (having won the WF), i was at a crossroads of domination or science. I made 1 attempt on domination, got to T244 (left with Poca/ramky/boudicca), and got bored of mowing thru Pocatello's army and cities. I hate domination on continents when you cant battleship snipe all the capitals..

reloaded and went for an order science victory since i was poor this game. Not sure how to play order SV (bulbed/rat final to hubble and then save GS for post hubble?), build parts in various cities and GE last part. Apparently GE can fail to finish parts in 1 turn, but it didnt matter since 1 part was still en route to the capital. T263 (again too much faith for more GS...) and commie mayans blast off!

Social Policies: Full Lib, Trad (aristoracy), Explore (+3 hammers), Full Rat, 8 Order.

Wonders: Oracle, Machu Pichu, Kremlin, PT. Captured Stonehenge, Pyramids, GreatWall.

Religion: Goddess of the hunt but never founded. Aztec/Venice/Carthage all had religions with no faith buildings (wtf....), although Venice reformed with JE a few turns before plastics so some RL were bought.

WC: WF (won), Sci Fundings (proposed by korea, passed but little effect), IG (let poca win)

Bak Tun: GS, GE (Machu Pichu), GAd, GW (post WF timing), GA

Pictures: Monty fears my great might of 2 spearman and 3 archers (his garland war with Dido not so good), No prizes for guessing who sent 3 settlers to barbarian island, victory
 

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I dont know why I seemed to struggle in peaceful game a lot with tradition then to liberty at times cause I dunno how to handle Ai's snowballing out of control.
 
T246 SV

Maya was ranked highly on many deity tier lists and I wanted to see why and probably they are good but not Korea/Babylon level I'm afraid. You can only pick one of each GP, and GS/GE/GMer increases counter of each other.

T59 Philosophy
T92 4 city NC
T107 Education
T157 ST
T197 Plastics

Got Theology at T80 and picked Bak'tuns:
GS (86), GAdm (101), GPr (117), GE (133), GA (152), GW (183), GM (234)

Not as many GS as I expected, even science funding was passed late. Post Plastics turns were more than expected. Faith bought 2 GS. Enough faith for a 3rd but came too late of any use.

Spoiler :

Stole workers off Monty, Enrico, and one military CS. Venice was crippled by my worker stealing and forward settle. My capital is on the mountain, 3 expos all on coasts. Considered building a 5th Petra city near the oasis, but decided against it as Petra is risky and didn't want to waste the first GE on it. Not a lot of luck with trade routes so first 100 turns science was a bit slow.

Got DF and religion with mosque by rushing the UB pyramid shrine in all cities.
Planting the 1st GS and using the 2nd baktun great admiral to explore the other continent. 3rd was GPr used to enhance for growth belief. 2nd GS picked for LToP was also planted since there is observatory.

Dido was surprising friendly this game and we had a long DoF. Pocatello eventually got a crappy city just to my east and wouldn't be friends until very end. Monty was afraid for some odd reason for the longest time and act erratically. Sejong was also my friend for some high value RA. 1st WC was WF which I never bother to win with Pocatello in the game. Science funding was passed on 3rd WC with help of Sejong and Pocatello. I never knew that the Shoshone was capable for such strong science when going ICS, they actually entered Information era the same turn I did. Too bad I couldn't get DoF earlier for any RA.

GE used for Leaning Tower of Piza, spy saw Poca building it, and later also saw him building Porcelain tower, but I was able to beat him to it. Also built Big Ben, Statue of Liberty and Hubble Space Telescope.
Burned all the GA after Universal Suffrage for constant golden age until winning. Did not want to get free merchant from bak'tun since it delays GS.

Peaceful SV game, Venice was extremely vulnerable and several AI conquered him, including both Monty and Dido and later Sejong. No need to bribe. Too bad he took 2 CS out.


 
Nice game.

Try as I might, I could never shake off the northern foes as they kept attacking me each time I tried to play nice so I always give up
 
T246 SV
Got Theology at T80 and picked Bak'tuns:
GS (86), GAdm (101), GPr (117), GE (133), GA (152), GW (183), GM (234)

GPr as third great person was in my opinion poor choice as it increase both prophets and GS/GE/GM costs.

In my game after first GS I used only great persons who don't increase GS/GE/GM counter (even great musician as last one :))
 
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