SCENARIO: American Civil War - C3C only

One other thing I notice as I complete turn 1 is that I can set my science slider down to 30 percent and bring my gold per turn up to 433 per turn and still research inf. tactics in 6 turns. You may wont to set the govt. rate cap at 7-8 which will cause more of a trade off when adjusting the science slider.

Otherwise the union will gain gold without a loss in research time at a quick pace and this might be troublesome. Because of the human factor in rushing we can use this to our advantage against the ai but losing more research time will help discourage this. Its something to be tinkered with a bit.

........DREAD
 
On another note I believe calvalry should be better (offense) whine retaining its very weak defense.

Im looking at my western forts ,thinking of fighting the indians around there and if I wont to build a calvalry unit it has no chance of any effect against the native americam warriors which I dont see as realistic.

Im thinking calvalry as a good offensive charge unit with little defense (10-3) at a higher cost , still higher than in the game to make them rare but still worth building.

That way they would stand little chance against good defense riflemen units but could be used against indians-less defended town.

I still advocate that if 2 versions could be done (ai enhanced) then certain units such as this can be tied to great wonders that the ai starts with in certain key cities and not given to the ai as a build choice.
Example New Orleans Stables (great wonder ai only) gets 1 calvarly per so many turns to use but doesnt get bogged down building this unit.

The problem with the ai is that it will build the best stat unit for what it needs no matter how many turns it takes so if you have high shield cost units available to it it will waste time trying to build them while the human player will choose to build quicker -not as good units but alot more of them. The AI cant cope with this human thought process. AI builds most be simple and quick for it to compete. The huge shield cost units will bog it down into quicksand unless they are auto-built. Then the ai can be forced to build lesser units the way humans tend to in mass.

Im moving to turn 2 and hope this is some useful info.

OVERALL the game looks excellent-will be fun and seems to be well-done......:goodjob:
 
The first few turns have played out well. Up to turn 32 and I destroyed the southern ships that hung arounf but I was glad to see the confederates start a few ironclads. check on that one

I am moving my free to roam ships destroying what roads-tile improvements in range. I think mounting a invasion along the southern coast would be fun and helpfull in time.

I lost Springfield to a invisable unit(irregular?) but took it back in turn 32 with the Ashboth division.

In week 29 My Fort Filmore was burnt down but I have rushed a militia near that area to defend further attacks.

I have arounf 16-17 cities with the plague birds but I dont notice the population dropping much so this must relate to the strength.

The largest confederate build-up is at Bowling Green where I lost a division after beating the 1st army of the west. That bears watching.


So far I am taking things very slowly (looking to my defense) as is my style and slowly working more and more on infrastructure. Im in no hurry and wont to let them make some first moves as I study the game but I will look for their weakspots as I go.

I rate the game very good with a few side-notes I made above . The new ART- is among the best Ive ever seen. Love that fortress gun.

more later
 
Week 33----Destroy calvary-militia at Winchester----and church in the process

week 34-Take Winchester (1 resistor) my first southern city....like I said taking my time.

Week 35- I finish research on inf. tactics and look at the next tier. At my 30 percent science rate it will increase to 12-13 turns which looks good on increase so the adjustment may not be as badly needed as first thought and I believe the advance chart is working well at this point.

Am building training centers-more workers.

I choose advanced culture to keep my 30 percent and 6 turns as next advance.

I see transports only hold 1 unit which will slow me just a bit.

Not sure what the south is doing-suspect they are working on divisions but is fairly quite on their front.
 
Week 36-----Game Crash*************

With this message

Missing entry in Scenarios\..\Scenarios\ACCWC3\text\Pedialcons.txt:
Won_Splash_BLDG_Intelligence_Agency

I was enjoying it so far but Im stuck here for now with game saved right before week 36. I believe building the Intelligence Agency brought it to a halt.

I be out a while but will resume testing hopefully tonight.
 
Nice to see some activity.

The artwork was a pain to collect and implement, but I agree it looks great! I'd really like to get my hands on some better looking militia artwork and different artwork for the garrison units. I found when playtesting that I got confused very easily between the two.

Regarding why the map is not revealed. First, there is a new tech; improved cartography which reveals the entire map (as well as introducing the infiltrator unit). Second, there is a little bit of suspence involved in venturing into "enemy" territory and not knowing exactly where everything is. Look at it from a newbie player point of view. Part of the fun of the epic game is not knowing exactly where everything is.

True, the map of the continent was pretty much in place by this time, but that doesn't mean that they could exactly predict, with space view accuracy exactly where everything was. I really rather force the player to explore and probe a bit to find the path he wants to send his troops rather than to know exactly.

I'm willing to go with majority opinion on this, but why don't the beta testers try it both ways; once with map revealed and once without.

Regards
Misfit
 
Originally posted by Misfit_travel
Nice to see some activity.

The artwork was a pain to collect and implement, but I agree it looks great! I'd really like to get my hands on some better looking militia artwork and different artwork for the garrison units. I found when playtesting that I got confused very easily between the two.

Regarding why the map is not revealed. First, there is a new tech; improved cartography which reveals the entire map (as well as introducing the infiltrator unit). Second, there is a little bit of suspence involved in venturing into "enemy" territory and not knowing exactly where everything is. Look at it from a newbie player point of view. Part of the fun of the epic game is not knowing exactly where everything is.

True, the map of the continent was pretty much in place by this time, but that doesn't mean that they could exactly predict, with space view accuracy exactly where everything was. I really rather force the player to explore and probe a bit to find the path he wants to send his troops rather than to know exactly.

I'm willing to go with majority opinion on this, but why don't the beta testers try it both ways; once with map revealed and once without.

Regards
Misfit

I see your point on the map and its a good point I think. I see what you mean as the game unfolds a bit so I agree with the way it is. Let me know on other comments-regarding units-techs-ect if any seem valid to address to you.

Have you seen the GAME CRASH note......regards......dread
 
Originally posted by dreadknought
On another note I believe calvalry should be better (offense) whine retaining its very weak defense.

<snip>

Im thinking calvalry as a good offensive charge unit with little defense (10-3) at a higher cost , still higher than in the game to make them rare but still worth building.

That way they would stand little chance against good defense riflemen units but could be used against indians-less defended town.

I still advocate that if 2 versions could be done (ai enhanced) then certain units such as this can be tied to great wonders that the ai starts with in certain key cities and not given to the ai as a build choice.
Example New Orleans Stables (great wonder ai only) gets 1 calvarly per so many turns to use but doesnt get bogged down building this unit.

The problem with the ai is that it will build the best stat unit for what it needs no matter how many turns it takes so if you have high shield cost units available to it it will waste time trying to build them while the human player will choose to build quicker -not as good units but alot more of them. The AI cant cope with this human thought process. AI builds most be simple and quick for it to compete. The huge shield cost units will bog it down into quicksand unless they are auto-built. Then the ai can be forced to build lesser units the way humans tend to in mass.


Cavalry needs to be balanced for historical accuracy. Cavalry battalions of the time should not be able to beat the later version infantry units. (I'm paraphrasing Rocoteh and Procifica's comments here from the ACW thread). CSA Cavalry is particularly effective against militia and early game infantry in the open. Union Cavalry is pretty much useless except for picking off weaker milita and home guards.

I totally agree with splitting the scenario into two. I would also agree that the AI be given "cheats" in the form of wonders to autobuild certain unit types (like Cavalry and naval).

I would suggest that in later betas we remove naval wonders from the human player as a balancing step. Then gradually add additional wonders based on unit types we DON'T see the AI building normally in the game.

Regards,
Misfit
 
Originally posted by dreadknought
Week 36-----Game Crash*************

With this message

Missing entry in Scenarios\..\Scenarios\ACCWC3\text\Pedialcons.txt:
Won_Splash_BLDG_Intelligence_Agency

I was enjoying it so far but Im stuck here for now with game saved right before week 36. I believe building the Intelligence Agency brought it to a halt.

I be out a while but will resume testing hopefully tonight.

Bloody hell! And I was so careful about all the new wonders, I forgot to check the old ones. This one requires an edit in PediaIcons. I will need to release a new beta to fix this bug. For now, could I ask that we continue a little further in beta1 to capture some other feedback?

Misfit
 
Originally posted by Misfit_travel


Bloody hell! And I was so careful about all the new wonders, I forgot to check the old ones. This one requires an edit in PediaIcons. I will need to release a new beta to fix this bug. For now, could I ask that we continue a little further in beta1 to capture some other feedback?

Misfit

Yes , that fine, I have given the best thoughts I have so far but will wait for some others to chime in. We will still have to play further to full understand the tech tree but it looks good to me so far. Awaiting further developements.........dread
 
Got it to load and will tinker with the CSA when I get a chance.

I agree, the artwork looks great!!

Some of the CSA blockaid runners (especially in the Gulf) appear as monitors.

Looking forward to trying it out.
 
Procifica made a revised unit costs list for ACW2 which he was nice enough to share with me. I think it might do a better job of balance than what we currently have.

With regard to tech costs, let me explain it this way. If you think of each column in the tech tree as tech level, the Tech Level 1 costs between 80-90, Tech Level 2 costs between 100-110, Tech Level 3 costs between 130-140 etc.

The Union can research a level 1 tech in about 6 turns at 50%. The CSA takes 12 turns for a level 1 tech. Costs escalate to each level. It was a shot in the dark for tech levels based on what had been done in previous releases. Keep in mind that you have to research a WHOLE lot more techs to get an era advance to get to the really good infantry techs in era 2. What I would like to know from the beta testers is how soon you get to era 2 in the tech tree. If you do it more or less around the time period in the era, then tech costs are probably balanced.

Too much money continues to be a problem for the Union I think. We may have to adjust the number of banks in Union cities to reduce the cash flow a bit. (This was a problem in ACW v3.x as well and I didn't change any of the city improvements when building this beta release).

Regarding plagues. I set the duration to 2 turns, the strength to 5 (out of 100). That means that a city that gets disease should only have the circling vuture for 2 turns and has a limited percentage chance of losing a population point.

Keep in mind that if you move a unit THROUGH a city that has plague, you spread it to other cities. (I'm guessing that's what happened to dreadknought). In my limited testing I only had a couple of cities at a time under plague. We may need to adjust the strength upwards to have it effect the population. The overall intention was to simulate pop. lost due to disease.

Regards
Misfit
 
Originally posted by Klyden
Got it to load and will tinker with the CSA when I get a chance.

I agree, the artwork looks great!!

Some of the CSA blockaid runners (especially in the Gulf) appear as monitors.

Looking forward to trying it out.

Sounds good, I guess you figured out the file stuff. You can play but do not (as of yet) build the intelligence agency as it will cause a crash.
 
Originally posted by Klyden
Got it to load and will tinker with the CSA when I get a chance.

I agree, the artwork looks great!!

Some of the CSA blockaid runners (especially in the Gulf) appear as monitors.

Looking forward to trying it out.


That's a bug. Thanks for pointing it out. When I changed the underlying game artwork, it switched a bunch of the units around on me. I thought I had caught all of it, but looks like I missed the CSA Blockade Runners that start the game at sea in the Gulf.

For game balance purposes you may want to sink all but one of the monitors. That would provide about the same level of firepower as game start blockade runners.

I've recorded it and will fix it for beta 2.

Thanks
Misfit
 
Last Conformist:

Let me fix the two bugs that have been reported so we can do a PBEM with appropriate units and wonders. What I did in my v3.9 game with Whizkid was start as Union but not move any units the first turn. We can handle it that way or just enable the "don't move 1st turn" feature in the editor. (Or you can set it up).

I'm flexible but I totally agree that CSA should move first in a multiplayer game.

Regards
Misfit
 
BTW, I changed the game start ARMY unit (in ACW terminology that is a Corps) to have a transport capacity of 4 instead of the value it had in V3.x (which was 7).

I'm finding in my PBEM game with Eric_A that this unit is too unbalancing. I've only loaded 6 units in it but am pounding Eric_A's divisions to pieces without taking much in the way of damage back. A four unit army at the start will still get the job done, but will entail a little more risk in making it susceptible to counterattack after its killed a Union division or two.

It would also make it consistent with our new Corps size (which you can build with the Military Academy wonder once you discover Army Organization).

Regards
Misfit
 
I have to signoff until late tonight. My wife and I are celebrating her big raise at work today.

Thanks for all the feedback, keep it coming.

Misfit
 
Originally posted by Misfit_travel
Procifica made a revised unit costs list for ACW2 which he was nice enough to share with me. I think it might do a better job of balance than what we currently have.

With regard to tech costs, let me explain it this way. If you think of each column in the tech tree as tech level, the Tech Level 1 costs between 80-90, Tech Level 2 costs between 100-110, Tech Level 3 costs between 130-140 etc.

The Union can research a level 1 tech in about 6 turns at 50%. The CSA takes 12 turns for a level 1 tech. Costs escalate to each level. It was a shot in the dark for tech levels based on what had been done in previous releases. Keep in mind that you have to research a WHOLE lot more techs to get an era advance to get to the really good infantry techs in era 2. What I would like to know from the beta testers is how soon you get to era 2 in the tech tree. If you do it more or less around the time period in the era, then tech costs are probably balanced.

Too much money continues to be a problem for the Union I think. We may have to adjust the number of banks in Union cities to reduce the cash flow a bit. (This was a problem in ACW v3.x as well and I didn't change any of the city improvements when building this beta release).

Regarding plagues. I set the duration to 2 turns, the strength to 5 (out of 100). That means that a city that gets disease should only have the circling vuture for 2 turns and has a limited percentage chance of losing a population point.

Keep in mind that if you move a unit THROUGH a city that has plague, you spread it to other cities. (I'm guessing that's what happened to dreadknought). In my limited testing I only had a couple of cities at a time under plague. We may need to adjust the strength upwards to have it effect the population. The overall intention was to simulate pop. lost due to disease.

Regards
Misfit

Yes I think the tech research looked good after seeing it go through 1 tier so far. It depends on if each player would researh every 1st tier tech or try to skip up to the 2nd to some degree but I tend to research the cheapest one I can before moving up. ALL-IN ALL it look well-done

The plagues appears to effect cities longer than 2 turns (even in cities with no movement) but the population loss is not bad at all. I like the simulation of disease as I suggested tile disease a while ago myself and this is a variation of that. Are we sure low tile disease would not work better (around 2-3 percent) so it woudnt spread around?

Another possibility on the union money is to increase their unit cost by 1 and see how that goes.

regards-----dread
 
*Edit* Thought the units had the right stats, wrong art work, but I was wrong.. nice start for the CSA.. :)

I also like the new tech tree and the fact that if you lower the science bar, the time increases. I did this with the Union on an earlier version and had a war chest of 4K+ to buy units with in an emergency.
 
Ok... played around 12-13 turns of CSA.

Our stalwart men in gray had launched an offensive into southern Illinois and had managed to capture Vandalia, Marion, and Paducah. The Federal river navy was no more. The Army for the east was very busy and we managed to score some successes north of Washington by first killing 3 enemy divisions and then taking Hagerstown. Fortress Monroe is now in CSA hands. They probably won't be able to advance much further as it is difficult to consolidate what you have due to lack of units and the need to keep a strong force around Washington. Also scored some minor success by taking Wheeling.

The Arkansas troops did their job by destroying both Federal pieces of property and central and southern Missouri have fallen under total control of the CSA as they captured Springfield and defeated an attack on Jefferson City. St Louis, Booneville and the Kansas City area remain firmly under control of the Federals.

An attack into Kentucky by the Union was spoiled by a lively counter attack that saw a Union divison destroyed. Since then, Union troops spent time threatening various Confederate positions and marching back and forth from their start point and Paducha.

The Union navy has proceeded to make life miserable for most of the Confederate coastal areas by shelling the crap out of ports. While the harbor defenses have taken their toll, the South lost a great many of their port facilities. The North has twice launched amphibious invasions with one being destroyed before it could land and another on the way.

The Confederate warchest was up over 1k, but they had yet to research anything. (First tech is about 6 turns away as I put Science on 30 and luxaries on 10 to try to keep the populance happy). I was getting about 55 gold to start with, now up over 110 and I need to check to see if I can kick science back to 40 or not. I am trying to get built into a couple of the luxury hexes that are not hooked up yet, but still working on it, so I can drop the 10 percent off. I think a lot of the reason my cash availability improved is I had a lot of facilities get blasted off the map on the coast.

That is basically the status of the game. I have to say, I have enjoyed it very much so far.

As far as things going on (and most are very minor, but I include them for completeness sake).

1. Disease is way too rampant in the game. Buzzards were all over the place. I also lost a unit to disease which was not a good thing at all. My concern here (and I don't know if this can be set or not) is that although the chances might be low, supposed that army that the CSA has to start with bites the dust or a big costal battery that has been holding the Feds at bay? Granted, you can go fetch a auto save, but still. The other issue for the South is that population loss is too much. Not only are you losing population due to flood plains and other terrain, now you are losing it to disease. I bet a turn did not go by after the game got going that I did not lose at least one population to something.

2. Some of the graphics don't have sound associated with them (told you there were some minor items.. ;) )

3. I like the divisions with their integral artillery. Helped me soften up positions before sending one in to attack.

Will try to get some more time in when I can and post again. Overall, I like it a lot.. well done to the designers! :D
 
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