My custom civ - Project Discussion

Actually, it's because the Beastmaster will lose the poison thing.

And lose some strength but get it back as fire. So they will probably be 12 + 2 Fire instead of 14.
It's because of their lore. It will also get the base +1 Strength and 70% damage limit that all my skirmishers have.

And for immortal, as said, I will think about it.

Now I need some sort of idea for the names, and for the Divine Spell.

Also, to add something.
I have newer used aristocracy at all. So I have just noticed that the royal guard unit is mounted.


Hence, I need to make an UU for it.
I was thinking nothing special.

Same , 2 :movement: instead of 3, Creation 1 instead of Spirit 2 and does not require horses.
Will cost 200 instead of 180 to compensate for the lack of resources and -1 moves.
Will also get the defensive strikes, greater than an archer but less than a longbow. (20% to deal 15% damage)

Any input? Is this good or bad?

PPQ_Purple said:

Also, to add something.
I have newer used aristocracy at all. So I have just noticed that the royal guard unit is mounted.


Hence, I need to make an UU for it.
I was thinking nothing special.

Same , 2 :movement: instead of 3, Creation 1 instead of Spirit 2 and does not require horses.
Will cost 200 instead of 180 to compensate for the lack of resources and -1 moves.
Will also get the defensive strikes, greater than an archer but less than a longbow. (20% to deal 15% damage)

Any input? Is this good or bad?

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But that UU you're planing is going to be mounted or not?.

Having a UU that requires a specific civic is tricky. It may mean that players that don't want to follow that civic will miss a part of the gameplay.

So if that unit would require Aristocracy, you may want to add extra benefits for chosing that civic.

Another note: Creation I is Growth, Spirit II is Hope. Growth only gives extra health from some resources and saves some food when a city growth. On the other hand, Hope adds 4 culture, a happy face and gives Courage promo to units in that city. IMO, Hope is better than Growth for a unit that would fit a defensive role rather than anything else. (Would this UU keep Guardsman promo?)

But that UU you're planing is going to be mounted or not?.

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Not, it's going to be mele.

Having a UU that requires a specific civic is tricky. It may mean that players that don't want to follow that civic will miss a part of the gameplay.

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So does the Druid UU.
I just needed to get rid of a mounted unit. They are not missing out on anything more than the average player (and me) are missing out by not playing aristocracy.

So if that unit would require Aristocracy, you may want to add extra benefits for chosing that civic.

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The unit replaces a normal unit that also requires aristocracy.
I don't see a reason to give them any more incentive.

Another note: Creation I is Growth, Spirit II is Hope. Growth only gives extra health from some resources and saves some food when a city growth. On the other hand, Hope adds 4 culture, a happy face and gives Courage promo to units in that city. IMO, Hope is better than Growth for a unit that would fit a defensive role rather than anything else. (Would this UU keep Guardsman promo?)

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That is a good point...
On the other hand it does increase the health allowance thus decreasing the need for creation mana thus allowing for more fire mana for combat purposes...

But I will probably return hope to them. As I said, I newer used them so I have no idea of the strategies they are good for.
I only ever use God King.

And yes, they keep all the default promotions.

I think I have come up with a proper spell for my High Priest. And I need you people to tell me what you think of it. If anyone cares any more.

The spell will be a range 2 copy of Ring of Fire. Same damage limits, same stats just 2 range instead of 1.


What do you think?

that would be awesome

Does Ring of Fire target neutral/allied units?

No idea, but this one would be modified not to.

yes. Very nice lvl 3spell.
A : maelstorm, enemy onlys, fire damage, spell.

Im not sure if that wouldnt be somewhat OP. Build a stack of AV priests and the ring of fire makes short work of many stacks of doom, with one of the limits that you can't use it near allied units. I'd say make it ring of fire without the allied damage, or ring of fire with ring 2 with allied damage, though this'll make it even more impossible to use against enemies when there's allied units nearby.

@gravage : remember it's a High priest spell : only 4 units in game with this spell.
well. it really depends on the RoF damage limit.

Well, since I want it to stay competitive with the fallowing spells: Fireball (turns your mage into a long range siege unit), Fire Elemental (a really strong unit with fire affinity and collateral damage) and Pillar of Fire (Hits the strongest enemy stack nearby with a lot of damage) I can't make it weaker than the original Ring of Fire.


So my options so far are:

A (Quite stronger than the standard ROF)
Damage: +20% (+40% Max)
Range: 2
Does not damage friendly or neutral units

B (Somewhat stronger than the regular ROF)
Damage: +20% (+40% Max)
Range: 1
Does not damage friendly or neutral units

Keep in mind that I need it to compete with said spells, be stronger than the default Ring of Fire and that my units take +50% from fire damage due to their race promotion, so any friendly fire would be suicidal and is hence unacceptable.

What do you think?

So like the equivalent of a maelstrom minus collateral and neutral damage,
what's the range of pillar of fire?

Also can you remind me of the respective units/tiers for each of these spells?

if Pillar of Fire is short range, or of higher tier, I can imagine them to have different utilities, plus Ring of Fire could be good for defending

northeaster345 said:

So like the equivalent of a maelstrom minus collateral and neutral damage,

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Pretty much. But it does effect entire stacks of enemy units.

Units:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9517180&postcount=79

Blaze Sphere Spells:

Lvl 1, Burning Spirit - Gives all your units in the stack (mele and archery only) below level 3 +1 Fire affinity but they die after their next combat. Is automatically dispelled in the next turn.

Lvl 2, Cleansing Blaze - Acts as a replacement for sanctify and transforms mana resources into Fire Mana. Destroys any improvements while doing the later.

Lvl 3, Pillar of Fire - Range +2, does damage to an entire stack of units, picks the strongest stack in range automatically.

Level 3 Divine - The new spell

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if Pillar of Fire is short range, or of higher tier, I can imagine them to have different utilities, plus Ring of Fire could be good for defending

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So do you like it? Also, A or B?

Hmmm... if it's a channeling III spell it should be more powerful IMO.
Perhaps add a secondary effect, and up the damage a touch
It should be comparable to crown of brilliance or earthquake, as a tier three divine spell

maybe add a burned/(blinded?) effect to the targets to differentiate the spells more
(not sure if that would fit with the lore though)

also does this tier three divine unit have access to blaze spells?

EDIT: I imagine pillar of fire as the attacking/siege damage spell, and if the spells are on the same tier, they shouldn't compete over sheer damage

northeaster345 said:

Perhaps add a secondary effect, and up the damage a touch
It should be comparable to crown of brilliance or earthquake, as a tier three divine spell

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I am listening.

maybe add a burned/(blinded?) effect to the targets to differentiate the spells more
(not sure if that would fit with the lore though)

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That is an interesting idea.
It would fit nicely, but I have no idea what sort of effect to have.

also does this tier three divine unit have access to blaze spells?

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It updates from a Mage UU, so it only gets Channeling 1 and 2 but not 3.

Finally got around to reading this ten page monster

Thematically I like this team; I think that quite often as mods and modmods continue to develop more and more things get added, and complexity goes up as each team needs "its own cool thing". It's nice to see a team that is taking the opposite approach and trying to simplify the mechanics, while still keeping "its own cool thing"

By this I mean that you're cutting them off from various manas and resources and as a result making the core dynamics very clear and important to the team. (Mainly the balance of fire and creation nodes obviously, but also priority shifts caused by not needing horses and some other resources as much but still needing to expand).

I do think careful play-testing will be needed however - you seem to justify some of the balance choices based on there lack of flexibility. However in practice I think most teams are fairly specialised in any case, and while your scarecrow team takes it to a greater extreme than others I think that specialisation is stronger in general. That said they are very vulnerable to anything with fire immunity or reduced fire damage.

Since you're trying to iron out only a few last steps - it may be worth considering some way for them to remove/reduce fire immunity - since practically all there damage to other teams is fire based, a lot of fire immune promoted units would be a big problem for them currently.

Of course with the recon line doing collateral damage they may be able to overcome that issue that point seems to be the strongest thing they have going for them imo, which is another area I feel tweaking will be needed in the balance stage - at the moment there's a risk I can see where the recon line being collateral damage dealers becomes a greater focus than the core fire concept.

Still, I look forward to trying them out and offering more tested balance feed back with 1.4

P.s. if you still need names for units, I really think at least one unit (Like the Immortal) should be called Straw-Man. After all those kind of arguments always come back. But only if you want a semi-joke name.

Rapier said:

P.s. if you still need names for units, I really think at least one unit (Like the Immortal) should be called Straw-Man. After all those kind of arguments always come back. But only if you want a semi-joke name.

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Way ahead of you. Straw Men (plural) is the name of my warrior UU.

Rapier said:

Finally got around to reading this ten page monster

I do think careful play-testing will be needed however - you seem to justify some of the balance choices based on there lack of flexibility. However in practice I think most teams are fairly specialised in any case, and while your scarecrow team takes it to a greater extreme than others I think that specialisation is stronger in general. That said they are very vulnerable to anything with fire immunity or reduced fire damage.

Since you're trying to iron out only a few last steps - it may be worth considering some way for them to remove/reduce fire immunity - since practically all there damage to other teams is fire based, a lot of fire immune promoted units would be a big problem for them currently.

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I agree with many of rapier's points, but wanted to run with his idea. Perhaps the tier 3 divine spell could apply a debuff to increase susceptibility to fire

Also yes, I think we'll need to do a significant amount of play-testing to balance this civ out

As you see, I have not been idling while we have been waiting for 1.31. So far, I have completed most of the work on this but I still require some help from the rest of you. Look at the post bellow this and provide any suggestions you can. Especially with unit names.


Channel Log: Sunday, December 12, 2010

Current Progress:

Units:
Adept UU – Done
Mage UU – Done
Arch Mage UU – Done
High Priest UU – Done but lacks final spell

Warrior UU – Done
Axeman/Swordsman UU – Done
Champion UU – Done
Immortal UU – Done but lacks a good name
Phalanx UU – Done
Berserker UU – Done

Scout UU – Done but lacks a good name
Hunter UU – Done but lacks a good name
Ranger UU – Done
Beast Master UU – Done but lacks a good name

Cannon UU – Done

Royal Guard UU – Done but lacks a good name

Hero 1 – Done
Hero 2 – Almost Done, pending me to type him out in XML

Leaders:
Leader 1 – Done
Leader 2 – Pending for 1.31
Leader 3 – Pending for 1.31

Cities – Done

Spells:
Blaze 1 – Done
Blaze 2 – I have problems with making it work
Blaze 3 – Needs a balance tweak, so far it's just a clone of the Pillar of Fire spell but I want to make it unique somehow
Creation 2 (Rebirth) – Done
Religious 3 – I am drawing a blank here, need advice

Buildings – Pending for 1.31

Technologies – Done