LAKE VICTORIA versus KING SOLOMON'S MINES (as SPAIN)
- Thread starter El Caballerion
- Start date
Between these two, I'd say KSM, since earlygame production is not as easy a stat to come across... Since Spain my starts are filled with grassland food isn't an issue for me... production can assure you almost any wonder you want, (HG to make up food) assuming that we're talking about it being around Madrid.
In a case where a Spain with KSM is 1v1 with a Spain with LV, King Solomon's Mines can rip out a huge army.
Overall its more versatile than Lake Victoria throughout the game, and food is an easier stat to come across. Very few buildings/tile improvements give you large raw amounts of production.
In a case where a Spain with KSM is 1v1 with a Spain with LV, King Solomon's Mines can rip out a huge army.
Overall its more versatile than Lake Victoria throughout the game, and food is an easier stat to come across. Very few buildings/tile improvements give you large raw amounts of production.
I still think growth is better the majority of the time. (So LV for me) But one single wonder will pretty much make KSM better than LV: Temple of Artemis. It's not coveted as often by the AI like the Great Library, so it's very likely that you can go for it and get it once you have Archery. The amount of growth it offers is simply astounding. All of your cities will be growing like crazy, and you can easily substitute in a couple production tiles while still growing at a brisk pace.
El Caballerion
King
Do you guys have any idea what the odds are to spawn within 10 or so tiles of either wonder? I have found that I have spawned next to LV about 3 times and KSM only once out of about 60 different restarts.
Koiranputki
Prince
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I voted for King Solomon's Mines....but it really is a toss-up..... LV can really "jump-start" a game. I like playing as Spain....but you have to have one of the "choice" wonders to make it interesting....
In a recent game that will not soon be forgotten I won a cultural victory......... I spawned very close to FoY....a great start but Madrid was never much of a production city. However one of my scouts found KSM maybe 12 or so tiles away in another other not so great site....but the early production was good enough to snag most of the early wonders....and to produce a couple of quick settlers which the FoY covered nicely.
But it kept on going ....I found more natural wonders....none in great locations by themselves, but enough to make a big difference as Spain... I, of course, took the natural wonders pantheon....so I was rolling in faith through most of the game.... I even had one city set-up for Petra....but, alas, that was not to be.... it just couldn't produce fast enough...and it was a fairly wide miss, I think by about seven turns.... My cities were stretched too thin for roads until well on in the game, but it didn't seem to matter.
The problem with unusually lucky game scenarios like this is you tend use them as a "litmus test"....it takes awhile before more ordinary games become interesting again....
In a recent game that will not soon be forgotten I won a cultural victory......... I spawned very close to FoY....a great start but Madrid was never much of a production city. However one of my scouts found KSM maybe 12 or so tiles away in another other not so great site....but the early production was good enough to snag most of the early wonders....and to produce a couple of quick settlers which the FoY covered nicely.
But it kept on going ....I found more natural wonders....none in great locations by themselves, but enough to make a big difference as Spain... I, of course, took the natural wonders pantheon....so I was rolling in faith through most of the game.... I even had one city set-up for Petra....but, alas, that was not to be.... it just couldn't produce fast enough...and it was a fairly wide miss, I think by about seven turns.... My cities were stretched too thin for roads until well on in the game, but it didn't seem to matter.
The problem with unusually lucky game scenarios like this is you tend use them as a "litmus test"....it takes awhile before more ordinary games become interesting again....
If LV lets you exploit a huge set of mines on hills, it beats KSM by default because in the end you have a high pop, high production city while KSM only gives you a high production city and you rely on other fields for food.
LV also now is a freshwater source (as of this fall patch I believe?) and that makes it even stronger.
Of course, LV with just a bunch of grassland around might end up being a terrible start, but I've never actually seen such a start.
LV also now is a freshwater source (as of this fall patch I believe?) and that makes it even stronger.
Of course, LV with just a bunch of grassland around might end up being a terrible start, but I've never actually seen such a start.
Koiranputki
Prince
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Yes...in the long run LV with lots of available production ...maybe even with Petra, would be the best....but the real "beauty" of KSM is the early very fast production.... including quick settlers to grab choice spots nearby before those pesky neighbours screw you out of them...
Oh ....In one game I encountered LV almost completely surrounded by snow....there was some iron neaby and a tundra river...and maybe one of those deer tiles, but that was about it....it was also close to an AI...so I just didn't bother with it.....though I suppose if it had been closer to my core cities it would have been worthwhile for the science it would have pumped out....
Another thing about KSM and Spain is that it will make you much "braver"...if I find KSM close to a neighbouring civ and with reasonable prospects for growth I'll put a city there....hopefully on a hill and even up to the distance limit for location, knowing that I can churn out archers/bowmen and pikemen fast enough to either attack them or to repel them....though it can get dicey....in one game in such a city I had two AI DOW me at the same time....the city held out but just barely.....
whyidie
Emperor
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- Dec 10, 2003
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I voted for King Solomon's Mines....but it really is a toss-up..... LV can really "jump-start" a game. I like playing as Spain....but you have to have one of the "choice" wonders to make it interesting....
In a recent game that will not soon be forgotten I won a cultural victory......... I spawned very close to FoY....a great start but Madrid was never much of a production city. However one of my scouts found KSM maybe 12 or so tiles away in another other not so great site....but the early production was good enough to snag most of the early wonders....and to produce a couple of quick settlers which the FoY covered nicely.
But it kept on going ....I found more natural wonders....none in great locations by themselves, but enough to make a big difference as Spain... I, of course, took the natural wonders pantheon....so I was rolling in faith through most of the game.... I even had one city set-up for Petra....but, alas, that was not to be.... it just couldn't produce fast enough...and it was a fairly wide miss, I think by about seven turns.... My cities were stretched too thin for roads until well on in the game, but it didn't seem to matter.
The problem with unusually lucky game scenarios like this is you tend use them as a "litmus test"....it takes awhile before more ordinary games become interesting again....
That start needs to be in the "Godly Starts" thread. Amazing...
Forkandles
Chieftain
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- Jan 29, 2009
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- 71
KSM hands down if you are dropping a settler on it for your 2nd city. Probably LV if its the 3rd or 4th and ive got a chance to keep up with the unhappiness from the rocket growth.
lindsay40k
Emperor
My housemate's a fan of wandering starts, a few weeks ago she showed me a Spain game with LV next to Madrid and a Faith mountain (can't remember which) next to second city. Horrific!
Knut_Are_M
Prince
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- Aug 15, 2008
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- 323
Lake Victoria or king Solomons mines Depends on the surrounding land.
Now what you really want to start near is the great barrier reef.
1000 gold, 2x 4food, 2 Production,2 gold, 4 science. now talk about teching fast!
2x 12 tile yield tiles.
other then that uluru is a very Nice Wonder. 4 Food,12 faith.
Now what you really want to start near is the great barrier reef.
1000 gold, 2x 4food, 2 Production,2 gold, 4 science. now talk about teching fast!
2x 12 tile yield tiles.
other then that uluru is a very Nice Wonder. 4 Food,12 faith.
whyidie
Emperor
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I'm 1,000 times worse than the AI. If I'm Spain, I don't care where the wonder is, I'm settling next to it. You're Spain, wandering should be encouraged
Koiranputki
Prince
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Yes....As Spain I almost always wander around a bit before I settle my first city...unless I have four or five salt within easy reach which has happened. But in the search for natural wonders, you just never know what might be a tile or two away.
And to increase the the odds a bit I send the warrior is some other direction. The downside is that you might run into a barbarian camp....though they don't always grab the settler.
But, heck, if that happens I just start over......as Spain I seem to "re-roll' many, many times more often than when I play as some other civ. But for me it's all for fun and getting some good wonders makes the "Spain game" all that more interesting....
If it gets too easy I just abandon the game and try some other more challenging civ.... I still haven't been able to beat the game yet as Morocco...I would like to, but I want to do it with a desert start and with Petra....which can be hard to get if you don't have good early production.....
Oh yes...I play on standard settings at the emperor level...
El Caballerion
King
YES. And for these reasons, Spain is the most fun because your play style will be completely determined by which NW you exploit. It enables Spain to get a one-sided boost to either religion, production, food, culture, gold, or science, but the boost is rarely game breaking. It just makes the game much more solid and all around fun.
El Caballerion
King
I think the consensus is that KSM is mindblowingly awesome to settle your capital next to in early game. LV is good for beginning game but becomes epically awesome as the game progresses.
I voted for LV, but finally just played a game with KSM. I still cant choose which is better, but I'm going to have to go ahead and say KSM because early game production is crucial to building early game wonders and easily building an army to stay ahead of any potential threats for the first few eras.
I voted for LV, but finally just played a game with KSM. I still cant choose which is better, but I'm going to have to go ahead and say KSM because early game production is crucial to building early game wonders and easily building an army to stay ahead of any potential threats for the first few eras.
I'm going with the mines as well. I haven't played with either in my capital, but the trouble I tend to run into early game is issues with happiness. I often find myself clicking the "avoid growth" botton early game. Maybe with faster tech with LV your able to get workers out and improve resources quick enough to stay happy and this isn't an issue. With +12 hammers I can get all the early buildings up in no time, build wonders/settlers/workers or caravans.
SammyKhalifa
Deity
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- Sep 18, 2003
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- 6,308
Yeah, in the end. I'd still probably slightly favor the lake; but remember that the mines would be available to use from day one, no waiting to ramp up population, no happiness issues. Growth wouldn't be as fast obviously but you can build a granary in like 4 or 5 turns without waiting for mines be built.
Thinking about it more . . . you could what, build a scout on year two and your monument three turns after that if you wanted, assuming this is the capital we're talking about here.
