Caravan and Caravansary

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feldmarshall

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Jan 25, 2007
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Once you can build cargo ship, is there any advantage of using caravan to trade with other civ/city-state? Unless for some reason you want to trade with a non-coastal city. It seems that the yield and range is much less than the sea trade route. And is Caravansary useful? In what situation? I normally left it unbuilt, together with anti-spy buildings in non-capital city.
 
Only reason to use Caravan is indeed to trade with non-coastal cities - or, perhaps in theory at least, because it might be easier to protect your land trade routes than your sea routes.

Caravansery is pretty crap. Theoretically it will net you a bit of gold if AI sends a caravan into your city, but generally it will not be worth the hammers it costs to build imo.
 
The Caravansary also adds +50% range on land routes .

There is a Workshop mod, RYIKA's "Caravansary Trade Routes", which allows 1 extra Trade route (TR) PER Caravansary, buffs the Collussus to 3 TRs, and Buffs Venitian TRs by +50% .

I have found this mod to be quite useful, making tall stronger, and wide MUCH more affordable !!
 
dasaard200 said:
I have found this mod to be quite useful, making tall stronger, and wide MUCH more affordable !!
Click to expand...
Tall is generally considered stronger than wide. What game needs imo. is the opposite - link Trade Routes to Caravansery and at least partially unlink them from tech tree, so wide empires get more trade routes while tall empires get fewer.
 
Isn't that what dasaard200 is saying the mod does? Wide empires get more TRs because they can build more caravansaries.
 
kaspergm said:
Theoretically it will net you a bit of gold if AI sends a caravan into your city
Click to expand...

I don’t think that is correct. The East India Trading Company gets you extra gold from foreign trade routes. The caravansary get you extra gold from your own trade, plus extending the range. It is well worth the hammers if you have trades originating out of the your city. I am not sure why the governor like to build them, since land routes are lame compared to sea routes, but they don’t have a maintenance cost.
 
beetle said:
I don’t think that is correct. The East India Trading Company gets you extra gold from foreign trade routes. The caravansary get you extra gold from your own trade, plus extending the range. cost.
Click to expand...

Really? Is this new? I often skipped building EITC because I used to think that its +4 gold was the only economical benefit that it provided. Now that I know that it adds more gold from foreign trade routes, I guess i'll build it more often.
 
beetle said:
I don’t think that is correct. The East India Trading Company gets you extra gold from foreign trade routes. The caravansary get you extra gold from your own trade, plus extending the range. It is well worth the hammers if you have trades originating out of the your city. I am not sure why the governor like to build them, since land routes are lame compared to sea routes, but they don’t have a maintenance cost.
Click to expand...
Correct on the ETC, forgot which one did what. Either way, I stand by my point that Caravansary is waste of hammers in non-capital city, which was what OP pointed out. Sure, there have been one or two rare instances where a non-capital city is not my main trading hub, but when that happens, it's usually always because capital city is land-locked and I have a coastal city which makes most of the trades - and then again, that defeats the purpose of the Caravansary.
 
Browd said:
Assumes you have coastal cities. Not true on all maps.
Click to expand...

Also, entirely possible to have a coastal city or two, but still want caravans for internal trade routes if you have an inland Capital, or for completing a trade route to a city state inland that wants one.
 
The Caravansary should be considered a strictly optional/situational building. Certainly you should not build more than 1 unless you really have nothing else to work on and often at the time it becomes available there are better things to focus on. Only build it if your strategy requires you to net gold from distant trade routes and you need trade routes to spread tourism, religion etc....

However if you are playing a landlocked empire or Pangaea and you need to trade with inland cities it is probably worth building at some point. Certainly the +50% range bonus is very useful for reaching more distant cities.
Basically you only want a Caravansary in a city that has at least 1 early strategic resource and 2 luxury resources connected and is situated on a river (for the +25% land route bonus).
This should be your trade capital and if situated on a Holy City means you can spread your religion very quickly.
 
Trade Routes (TRs) are assets that can be assigned to ANY city, also can be EITHER a caravan OR a cargo ship . TRs 'age out', and can/will be re-targeted for many reasons, " I'm getting ready to stomp on China, so this TR goes to Siam", "Newcity4 wants FOOOOD !!" (internal TR), "Atilla pushes toward Dogpatch, TR moves to Scranton",(moving TR to new city-of-TR-origin (takes 1 turn to do)), "New continent found, 6 new CSs to trade with !!", and so on .

Having a Caravansary gives A city more range, and, using the Caravansary MOD, you get 1 extra TR over and above the 'normal' TRs you get by climbing up the tech tree; PER Caravansary ! You have 6 cities ? Build 6 Caravansary's for 6 extra TRs (using MOD), then trade like there IS a tomorrow !!
 
Well you can always mod things you consider weak, sure...

OP:
Cargo need a coastal city and good coastal destinations.

Caravansary is pretty good if you use external land routes (likely on Pangea). It will boost gold and the 50% range will allow for better routes for even more gold. If you have a good coastal city, you will probably build the harbor instead.
 
Sometimes I get confised by the `+` and the `-` and end up losing gold instead of making it. It don`t seem clear enough who benefits from the `+` or `-`, but maybe I`m just being dense.
 
kaspergm said:
Correct on the ETC, forgot which one did what. Either way, I stand by my point that Caravansary is waste of hammers in non-capital city, which was what OP pointed out. Sure, there have been one or two rare instances where a non-capital city is not my main trading hub, but when that happens, it's usually always because capital city is land-locked and I have a coastal city which makes most of the trades - and then again, that defeats the purpose of the Caravansary.
Click to expand...

Building EIC in your holy city also helps spread your religion, which is very nice for Tithe founder benefit.
 
Only to the extent that the EIC induces other civs to send trade routes to your holy city from cities that are outside standard pressure range, which certainly can be the case (particularly of your holy city is coastal).

So it can help, but +12 pressure (doubled pressure from Grand Temple in your holy city) to a foreign city will only have a meaningful impact on the number of followers in that city if you are otherwise pressuring that city from other sources.
 
Acken said:
Not sure what you're talking about
Click to expand...

Sorry, I messed up the explanation. I meant exactly who do the `+` apply to? I guess when its `<` it means the other Civ gets the extra gold and when it`s facing `>`, my Civ gets the gold. It just sometimes doesn`t seem to work that way. Nevermind.
 
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