Cultural Capital Mod

Hi

After a lot of digging I found out that the problem is incompatibility with Cultural Capitals (v 8) and Unofficial Patch and Thals Balance (v 56). This is how I tested:

  1. Started a new game with Cultural Capitals (v 8) and Unofficial Patch and Thals Balance (v 56) enabled in that order
  2. Gave my player all ancient techs and two great engineers via the Firetuner
  3. Rush built two wonders
  4. Formed a cultural commitee and selected a random bonus
  5. saved the game
  6. exited Civ
  7. Entered Civ and loaded the game
When I had loaded the game I found that no cultural commitee had been selected even though that was clearly the case.

I really hope for a fix as I was getting to like the game running these (and other mods).

\Skodkim

Edit: Just found out that it doens happen with Thals mod v. 5.4
 
Thanks skodkim for that report! :)

I will test it with Thals mod v5.4 and check if there are any more problems with saving.
Sadly, it's not the only thing that Thals mod is messing around. The mod also removes all building help texts, rendering the tooltips for theme-effects useless. I haven't looked into that in detail yet (since I'm a bit out of time this week).
 
Moaf said:
Thanks skodkim for that report! :)

I will test it with Thals mod v5.4 and check if there are any more problems with saving.
Sadly, it's not the only thing that Thals mod is messing around. The mod also removes all building help texts, rendering the tooltips for theme-effects useless. I haven't looked into that in detail yet (since I'm a bit out of time this week).
Click to expand...

Well good luck in your hunt. And just in case I didn't make it clear: It works with Thals v 5.4 but not with v 5.6 (newest version)

Anyway - thanks for the quick replies and thanks for a great and interesting mod :goodjob:

\Skodkim
 
Hi

An update: Just wanted to add that Cultural Capitals doesn't work with the new Unofficial Patch and Thals Balance (v 57) either.

I just did a test with v54 again and I can confirm that it works.

\Skodkim
 
So i started a game without ctp on deity and no problems. But yeah the ai is beating me, and it make a lot of fun even if i will lose. My time will come.
 
Hi Moaf
Any news on the incompabiliy with Thals mods. v 6.1 was released yesterday but it isn't compatible either.

IF I have some time (limited with wife and two small kids - one sick) I might try to make a test to see what specific files from Thals v5.6 and up are breaking the mod. Do you have any ideas what I should search for in that case?

\Skodkim
 
Hello Skodkim,
thanks for your offer, help is always welcome. :)
I'm changing some things right now and hope that the problem will be fixed. I'll check in later for a small update.

Update: In the time i had the only thing i found out so far is that there are problems with Whys Saveutils, both mods function fine on their own, but as soon both are activated, the saveutils have huge problems ("Cache not shared"). Have yet to find out why.
Update2: Still don't see why it doesn't work - the values get saved by modid, all save/load calls are after event.loadscreenclose. By both mods. Weird.
 
Moaf

I just found an interesting thing about the incompatibility between Thals mods and Cultural Capital Mod (CCM).

Just to summarize:
  • CCM and Civ V Unofficial Patch and Thals Balance (v 5) (version 5.4) seemed to work fine together
  • Upgrading to Unofficial Patch and Thals Balance (v 56) made the mods incompatible (notice the name change in thals mod)

I searched a lot and finally found a solution - not that I understand WHY it works...


  • I delete all files from the Civ V Unofficial Patch and Thals Balance (v 5) folder save the modinfo file
  • I take the files from the newest version of thals mod Unofficial Patch and Thals Balance (v 61) (again not the modinfo file) and copy them to the other directory
  • I make a small change to the modinfo file one XML file changed slightly)
  • Basically I now have the old modinfo file with the old mod name but with updated XML, lua, ... files.


THERE - I can use the mods together. :confused:

Civ V modding is weird sometimes... :rolleyes:

\Skodkim
 
Thanks for figuring that out skodkim! :goodjob:

Do you know where i can find v54? I can't find it in the modbrowser (the only version closest to v54 is v56) nor here in the threads. If it isn't downloadable anywhere, it would be really helpful if you could attach it. :)
 
Moaf said:
Thanks for figuring that out skodkim! :goodjob:

Do you know where i can find v54? I can't find it in the modbrowser (the only version closest to v54 is v56) nor here in the threads. If it isn't downloadable anywhere, it would be really helpful if you could attach it. :)
Click to expand...

Sure - here you go

\Skodkim
 
No problem

When testing I actually found one more incompatibility, but thats only a minor problem.

When I have Random Events (v 7) mod installed as well, I'm not informed when the first cultural comitee is formed (I can click on the button manually and select theme though) and no history point is written.

As said its only a very minor problem. Random Events (v 7) is old. I'm not even sure it works properly any more, so I'll just disable. Just used to like it once as I like the idea of random events.

Are you planning on an update soon? Otherwise I'll just start a game now that I finally got things working (crossing my fingers...).

\Skodkim
 
Hm, since i can't get my head around why this won't work you can play for sure at least one more round. :)
The incompatibility happens mostly when other mods are just changing vanilla files - there are two ways to make them compatible: create a workaround in my mod or alter the other mods. Because it doesn't make too much sense to create a workaround for every mod that changes vanilla files, they need themselves an update to be less intrusive to the vanilla files. But the next problem is, that some features cannot work without altering the vanillas :undecide:.
 
You're simply using shared resources and there's a battle raging on who gets access to them first.
It's not compatibility *between* different Mods but rather if common caching can provide reliable outputs when simultaneous processes grab their values in linear r/w.
Again, as it has always been... it becomes a matter of two (or more, btw) modders acknowledging their principles & methods.
For example; TopPanel, DiploCorner and InGameUI (addin, etc).
 
Okay, the problem with sharing of resources seems to stem from thals mod - nothing i could do there. These warnings occur even if thals mod is loaded only. (And I'm not sure where sharing issues between our mods should happen - all data r/w operations shouldn't create any problems, since there is no data both mods are using)

After loading up both mods and trying to exit/load a game the error messages get weird. I get a lot of these runtime errors that really don't tell me much where the problem lies:
Runtime Error: [string "Assets\UI\InGame\InfoTooltipInclude.lua"]:12: attempt to index global 'Game' (a nil value)
or
Runtime Error: [string "D:\Users\Moaf\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier'..."]:31: attempt to call global 'setmetatable' (a nil value)
(which is located in ThalsUtilities.lua)

Why are those variables suddenly nil'd when using both mods together?

:crazyeye: Halp!
 
So is this something Thal should be made aware of?

I'll start a new game as soon as I get a chance.

\Skodkim
 
I don't know yet. There could still a problem with concurrency I'm not aware of yet. Trying to isolate the problem in hope to corner the bug :trouble:. There is no escape.

@Zyxpsilon,
which other concurrency problems can occur between mods (i disabled caching in SaveUtils so there shouldn't be any problems within my codebase; i do not use ShareData)?
 
Okay, after trying again with just Thals balance mod v61, i found out that it has apparently nothing to do with my mod at all (i stupidly assumed that those errors happened only when both mods are active at the same time) - i even get runtime errors when exiting/loading a game just with this mod.
I'll post in Thals thread.
 
Well, that seems like both good and bad news.

Great you took time to go into it!

\Skodkim
 
Moaf said:
@Zyxpsilon,
which other concurrency problems can occur between mods (i disabled caching in SaveUtils so there shouldn't be any problems within my codebase; i do not use ShareData)?
Click to expand...

Too many to even try a comprehensive list here.

Let's use a general approach to "Conflictual" assets;
- Anything which tackles Vanilla files runs an inherent risk of coincidental flaws when two mods or more are performing similar tasks.
- Why's SaveUtils is more of a "track-out" device that can monitor specific processes. A mod tool, if you wish. Extremely useful, but can lead to corrupted shared data if r/w concurrency routines loop the wrong variables.
- Cache is a deposit gimmick. An emergency pool of valid runtime elements that is in constant flux when accessed directly or otherwise.

I highly doubt, Thal has neglected to design provisions and assets for HIS procedural methods in Balance Combined. As for it being compatible with every other mods, why should he (somehow) bother.

Btw, welcome to LeoPaRd (Link in the sig below) integration... you'll need an Icon later on.
 
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