Rebalance suggestions

Kaelistes

Chieftain
Joined
Aug 19, 2011
Messages
3
Having played four different versions of the Civ product prior to Civ World, this is by far the most unbalanced effort put forth so far. A few general thoughts to rebalance the game are below.

*Weaken Great Persons
*Revamp the market to commodities / mercenaries only
*Make commodities something that can be worked / collected / traded
*"Trickle income" should only apply to citizens that are working in that field
*Harvests need to go away
*Techs and buildings should provide early, mid and late-game bonuses to change the pace of gameplay
*Bonus resources are an early game-breaker

For complete details on each topic....
Spoiler :

Great Persons
Great Persons need to be weakened dramatically. They should only be used to build wonders -OR- provide a one-time boost to a particular resource (+500 resources per era of food/production/science/etc..). This would greatly contribute to players using them to create Wonders rather than stockpiling them.

Marketplace
Markets should only be available for trading resources, commodities and mercenaries - not Great People. By mercenaries that means that you can only buy up troops that other Civs are putting up for sale. Realistic gameplay dictates that at no time are there 50 barbarian natives waiting to get paid incrementally higher amounts just to have the privilage of fighting for you or being sold later down the road as some form of long-term retirement plan.

Commodities
There are currently four commodities available in the market, and none of these have any requisite or tangible value. Rather than making these four available throughout the entire game, consider making "commodity resources" in cities that can be worked in order to harvest them. Commodities should have a secondary benefit (+1% food/happiness/gold/production) that encourages trade rather than an artificial market that has no intrinsic value.

Trickle Income
Trickle Income (that little bit you get every 5 minutes or so) needs to be changed so that the "trickle" is directly proportionate to the productivity of various citizens of the city. This provides a reward for those who implement good city design and encourages a more balanced (and realistic) civilization and provides a secondary benefit of balancing the marketplace more completely.

Harvests
Get rid of these obtrusive things unless you have a Slavery-type civic that imposes a penalty. Harvests are horrid mechanism that just detract from the game experience that Civ has generally been.

Tech Bonuses
Like other versions of Civ, this implementation should provide bonuses not just for wonders, but also for various tech levels. At various key tech achievements, Civ-wide bonuses should apply to all players in that Civ. As an example, Bronze Working +5% Production or Pottery +5% food. Later techs would provide greater cumulative bonuses such as Irrigation +10% food (15% cumulative bonus).

Building Bonuses and Function
Buildings should also provide a modest, cumulative benefit (+5%/+10%/+15%/+20%) to all citizens working in that field rather than a proximity effect for the citizens working nearest to the building. This would provide benefit to builder-type players and potentially provide for more than the sparse number of buildings that exist in the game now. This would also contribute greatly to the late-game experience not bogging down.

Bonus Resources
Bonus resources need to be done away with. There are bonuses available in the mini-games already and adding a couple more mini games for farmers and workers certainly offer a better alternative to waving your mouse across the screen for four hours in order to be 600-800 resources greater than everyone else.

 
Good post, but I consider these points are all at medium game design level.
In civ5 the developers mainly have been focusing on minor game design changes,
CivWorld needs major game design changes.

- team play versus individual play (fame point system)
Most players want to play as a team/civ, but that's not the ultimate goal of the game.
- real-time features which are game decisive should be more static/fixed time based
Era wins, market contests, battles. IMHO, all these features should not be in the real-time mode.
A good example is building wonders. They require a lot of GPs and you risk to lose the wonder in no time because of a rebuild.
When you build a wonder you should have at least 12-24 hours the benefit of it.
- The second half of the tech tree really needs to be redesigned.
Actually in the current situation, it's best the game is over when the first half of the tech tree is finished.
 
team play versus individual play (fame point system)
Most players want to play as a team/civ, but that's not the ultimate goal of the game.

Very true. For a player to play as part of a team, stockpiling GP's for personal benefit is simply counter-intuitive and very individualistic.

A good example is building wonders. They require a lot of GPs and you risk to lose the wonder in no time because of a rebuild.
When you build a wonder you should have at least 12-24 hours the benefit of it.

I agree with the wonders issue here - being able to "build a better version of a wonder" should not be a part of the game. Once it's built, it's wonderous and unique. It can be replicated or even made bigger, more elegantly, etc..., but the original was the source of the inspiration in the first place - hence it being a wonder. Taking a wonder through combat makes the war process more strategic rather than "who can I get a quick kill from to advance an era" and holds true to the spirit of the Civ game.

The second half of the tech tree really needs to be redesigned.
Actually in the current situation, it's best the game is over when the first half of the tech tree is finished.

Rather than redesigning the tech tree itself, changing the mechanics of citizen production seems to make more sense. Techs like Literacy and University should provide the civ that researches them with a small civ-wide boost to science production, and each city that has a bonus building should get a boost for having the building rather than using GP's to generate a bonus. Currency and Banking would produce a gold boost, and so on. This would provide a cumulative benefit like that of the GP's currently by incentivizing players to build these buildings - but not at the absolutely cheap costs that are there now. Costs should double with each level of improvement so that a Ginormus Bank would cost 5000 Prod rather than 2000 Prod. (500+1000+1500+2000).

These changes in game mechanics would play towards different strategies as well. A builder strategy would have lots of buildings, but sacrifice military strength in the early game to get these building benefits earlier but result in a stronger late-game. A culture strategy would allow faster generation of GP's and wonder creation, but would sacrifice in some other areas as well. A financial strategy would be a gold boon but again, sacrificing other areas.

As it stands now, a player who is on for a number of hours a day needs only watch the market and can buy their way through just about everything. There is no other real strategy involved in order to win as a player -OR- as a civ. In fact, CivBucks have zero intrinsic value once the concept and time investment of playing the market is realized by general players. IMHO, until the market issue is corrected and the game rebalanced, the winner is the one who can best manipulate the market and spend the most time playing the game.
 
I agree with the wonders issue here - being able to "build a better version of a wonder" should not be a part of the game. Once it's built, it's wonderous and unique. It can be replicated or even made bigger, more elegantly, etc..., but the original was the source of the inspiration in the first place - hence it being a wonder. Taking a wonder through combat makes the war process more strategic rather than "who can I get a quick kill from to advance an era" and holds true to the spirit of the Civ game.

If that was the only means to gain already constructed wonders, the Great Wall would have to be done away with, as it'd be impossible for it to change hands.
 
CivWorld strikes me as a facebook app FIRST and a Civilization game secondarily. Unfortunately that means all real-time features are likely to stay.
 
I agree that the resource bubbles need to GO. How much more boring can it get than having to mouse over some random floating bubble?

I don't think team play should necessarily be the PRIMARY goal, and I like the idea of competing against other teams and also within the team. I think that makes it more like real life ;)

From what I see, what's disappointing about this game is that anybody who gets even a little bit behind the pack is usually liable to just keep sinking almost no matter what, and that just encourages people to stop playing altogether. Maybe instead of that inane caravan mini-game they could have some mini-game that's really difficult but is not directly tied to other factors in the game, and gives a substantial bonus. that way the underdogs would always have a CHANCE to catch up. I think a lot of unpredictability and variability would make the game more interesting.

Part of the reason people hoard GPs is because if you use them to build a wonder next thing you know the biggest baddest civ on the block comes knocking on your door for it, and all that work wasted. I don't think you should stand to lose wonders from losing wars, or maybe only if you don't bother fielding ANY units should you lose them. I think a better idea is that you should get a RANDOM tech from the losing civ (that you don't already have, if they have one!) .... right now in the game I'm playing, one civ has most of the wonders and has like 22500 defensive capability, the only other civ that has ANY wonders is the one that had the sense to build the great wall....
 
... and as someone already mentioned in another thread... merchants and artists are useless in this game, in general, culture is useless, it's only good for selling and thus never worth very much... and it's ironic because the culture mini-game is the only one I find even remotely stimulating....
 
The great people should be removed from the market.
One or two players always hoarding GPs, but contributing nothing to the civ.
And it only gets worse when they outwhoring themselves for dowries.
Other players are either too stupid or too greedy or both to see they are only helping the future winner.

Another thing that needs heavily nerfed or changed are the 2 battle mini wonders, call to arms + secret weapon.
Losing 50% of your melee + ranged units means most of the time a battle loss.
Not to mention the amount of resources that have been wasted.

> edit <
Another reason why the great persons need to be removed from the market :
Contest winners get 1 civbuck and easy contests are the most productive worker, farmer, etc.
The winner is 99% the same player during the whole game.
 
The great people should be removed from the market.
One or two players always hoarding GPs, but contributing nothing to the civ.
And it only gets worse when they outwhoring themselves for dowries.
Other players are either too stupid or too greedy or both to see they are only helping the future winner.
Removing them, you would then have to remove the 24 population achievement, as that would then be impossible to get (I'm still struggling to get it), as that requires hoarding prophets. Plus there's that new achievement that specifically requires buying a GP from the market that would need to get removed too. The GP you get would also have to be changed to being 100% random.

No, there's nothing wrong with GPs being available in the market as I see it. The only problem is there's just not much incentive to use those GP for wonders when a.) you may not get any medal/ministry (being randomly given), no matter your contributions and b.) those wonders can easily be lost in no time, be it thru someone else building them, or losing them to invaders.

Another thing that needs heavily nerfed or changed are the 2 battle mini wonders, call to arms + secret weapon.
Losing 50% of your melee + ranged units means most of the time a battle loss.
Not to mention the amount of resources that have been wasted.

That's kind of the point of those though. What would be the point of having them as an option if it didn't improve your chances of winning more than just a small percentage? 50% is fine. Besides, I've seen battles that were predominantly mobile units, thus completely unaffected by CtA and SW. You also can hold back units/production in reserve to reinforce your units should it be needed, so there's really no need to nerf them.
 
I think people playing stupidly is part of the game and those who are above being stupid need to learn to work with it and make it work FOR them ....

It's the same as IRL if some guy can't pick up some girl in a bar because she's "too stupid" and he can't relate to her... if HE wants to get what he wants he has to figure out how to give HER what she at least THINKS she wants, if he wants to be successful....
 
The 24 achievement population has become (very) hard to get, because games end much faster now due to civbucks.
There are 2 eras which give a food bonus, Imperial 50% and Medieval 25%.
If you are lucky you can do some food harvesting during those eras.
In a current game the Imperial era, early + late, was over within 3 hours.
And that's another frustration which needs to be fixed.
Every era should have a fixed amount time before it's over. One day or 12 hours.

And again the great people should only come from culture, not buying.
They are being abused to get economic wins out of the blue.
 
Sometimes I get back of the work and several eras have finish. :(
Don't worry about that in the future, because less people are playing CivWorld.
And when no one is logged in, the game is set on hold. Everything stops, harvests, trickle bonus, etc.
 
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