Securing a Beachhead

First off - greetings, salutations, and thanks go out to this community of Civ players.

I've recently stepped up to Immortal and typically play fractal or continents. With Domination I often find myself struggling with the late-game / 2nd continent conquest. Science moves so fast at this stage, so if I launch an invasion fleet with rifleman/cavalry with artillery (pre-destroyers) it can be difficult to secure a beachhead, from which I upgrade my units and then roll on.

I've found that using gold to secure a CS ally and then invading through its territory is the path of least resistance, but I'm curious...

How do you invade the 2nd continent? What is most efficient, fun?

As I get better I expect I will have a suitable navy to accompany my land units, but I'm not at that stage yet. I still have to land my units before the onslaught.

Get frigates and capture some coastal cities.

In this area, is perhaps the only way that Denmark succeeds. Try playing as them to invade coastal cities with ease.

Yes, Denmark is good.

Frigates are hard to use unless you are pre-committed to domination victory - ie, you have to send your frigates off as upgraded gal's the turn after you tech for Navigation, blindly, even if you haven't finished scouting continent 2, to get use out of them before city strengths hit 50 and frigates are garbage. (Not my playstyle, though.)

Otherwise it's all about terrain. Landing artillery 3 tiles from a city and keeping it safe from horse units usually means feeding your melee units into the 2-tile-from-city meat grinder. Then you have to keep the city. Pick your best target and see what happens. In practice, waiting until battleships and bombers is a lot safer, but also crushingly boring imo.

The one benefit of tech moving so fast is that if you do succeed, you'll hopefully be almost at radar by then - have money saved up to buy an airport as soon as the first captured city goes out of revolt.

CS are a good way, except I have to manage CStroops and Murphy's law.
Otherwise, frigate with barracks, armory for range upgrade (autocracy and Brandenburg help too). Or I'm looking for a 2 or 3 tiles spot to land. Some loss, but I land. If I plan to dominate, I fuel my army with constant reinforcement. So, I loose a couple of turns, but except if AI have artillery. If you land your navy, you'll win.
I used to play Yet another word map on Immortal, with Japan or Polynesia, it was this strat to invade America.

Well securing a beachhead can come in stages.

And you're correct, an AI city state is the path of least resistance.

However, if there is islands right before the mainland, they're typically good candidates for you to invade first so you have good healing point unless it's under heavy air cover by the enemy.

Other than islands, you will have to bombard the defending units on beaches before you can even bring the units onto the beaches. Ideally, you will have a enemy city redlined at about same time as your major infantry assault hits the beaches so that territory will be yours not the enemies for whatever bonuses you have.

If its late game, just open up with nuclear missiles and plop down units and use the nuclear missiles strategically every time there's a horde that might threaten you.

use a settler and plant a new troll city, ideally right on their continent somewhere, ideally on a hill.

Obviously, there is not always a lot of options for territory.
I have done this on small islands *just* outside a good landing spot. Then, as my military build up grows inside my new troll city, I launch the invasion from there. The city provides a place to rush units, land air units, heal your ships. Have some artillery in there with a frigate and you can probably keep the territory under most circumstances. In the modern age this can be a great place to launch paratroopers from.

This is situational, but can work wonderfully. If you have a GG (or two) then you can hopeful plop a citadel someplace beneficial.

As the campaign draws on, you capture new territory and eventually sell that troll city since it has outlived its usefulness. Perhaps as part of a peace deal after taking someone's capitol.

I disband my troops after finishing my continent, focus on infrastructure with the gold saved, get schools, tech up to battleships/bombers/carriers and a stray landship or tank to reach the more inland cities.

I don't think I've ever played a continents game where an AI capital was more than 10 tiles inland, but if there is, just mop everything else up until you get to stealth.

Frigates only work when rushed. If you're attacking the AI on your continent that early, you're not rushing frigates, so it's best to regroup for an era, and build a new second wave military specifically designed for your task.

I like domination as well for some games. I scout as soon as possible, with a couple possibiliies.

1. In the last game, there was a decent unsettled area next to a CS that allowed me to land enough units before taking the city. I kept a bunch of others close to land, as soon as I got the first city. Just a CS alone will not give enough land, especially with his own units poking around.

2. Troll city next to a friend AI (so they don't invade your under-protected city before you begin your own assault).

3. Friend city that allows you to move in their territory. That gives you the most territory to manuver.

4. Frigate-bomb. But I've never been a big navy guy.

The most important thing to make sure your own continent under control - nothing worse than moving your promoted military off shore in time for an invasion against your own cities.

Be sure to bring a great general with you before war and before you establish that beachhead. It not, it'll get killed by your opponent's privateers and caravels when trying to cross water.

Also use your own privateers to capture coastal cities, rather than using a land unit.

Lastly, if the other side gets subs or bombers before you do, back away!

Frigate bombing seems like it would be fun in that it's very different from my natural play-style. The campaign that prompted this thread was one in which I was trying (and succeeded) to eliminate the AI on my continent before establishing contact with the 2nd continent.

I had to stall exploration to avoid some warmonger penalties, as a result navigation was not given priority.

adwcta, I can confidently say it's never crossed my mind to actually disband my army and build a new one an era later. I certainly see the benefits, but don't know if I could go ahead and do it.

In truth I made the invasion more difficult than it needed to be because I was trying to win as soon as possible. It strikes me now that if I had exercised more patience I could have possibly teched for another era and then just steamrolled the 2nd continent with bombers in the same (or less) time it took me to struggle with a land army.

The most frustrating thing with frigates in a second continent is that they are subject to city bombings, and then they have to travel all the way back home to heal. Unless you have reserves, by the time you get them back, the city is healed. Battleships can at least bomb from a distance.

Grab a nearby CS as an ally and heal your frigates there. (Friend works too, but danger that your war opponent may ally them.)

My general approach to continental invasion:

1) Who has the most valuable wonders in their capital? (Depends on VC, but Notre Dame, Macchu Pichu, Colossus, Petra come to mind)
2) Who has the best coastline for attack? (Defined as "how many frigates can simultaneously bombard without being under fire from neighboring cities")
3) Who has the highest tech rate?
4) Who has the biggest military?

Often, #1 and #3 go together. If possible, I always attack the best wonder pinata first. If #2 prevent this, I keep going down the list, and if there isn't any other good wonder target, I go after the highest tech rate. But #2 is the determining factor.

A juicy capital makes a great beachhead.

That being said, sometimes it's worth bringing a settler along or capturing the small city next to the juicy capital first. Small cities come out of rebellion faster, allowing you to rush-buy units or the all-important airport. A settler can serve the same purpose, but not as well unless you have that elusive Order policy...

Anyway, think of it this way: If it takes 20 turns to capture the capital when you start by assaulting it directly, it is often waaaay faster to take a more exposed city next to it first, establishing a beach-head for troops to land, removing a source of city fire, thus allowing you to bring more frigates to bear. Plus, if you pick that city wisely, the AI will smash himself against you trying to take it back... this draws their units out into firing range.

That's how I do it.

Bulldog Bats said:

The most frustrating thing with frigates in a second continent is that they are subject to city bombings, and then they have to travel all the way back home to heal. Unless you have reserves, by the time you get them back, the city is healed. Battleships can at least bomb from a distance.

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Frigates do get +1 range really quick, though. And with enough of them, that first city falls quickly anyways (and then they can just heal there).

ravenmagus said:

Frigates do get +1 range really quick, though. And with enough of them, that first city falls quickly anyways (and then they can just heal there).

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Usually Frigates can insta-heal at least once, and there's often one or more tiles nearby to pillage. That's enough to secure a beachhead, most times. If you have a damaged Frigate who's shy of an insta-heal, experience-wise, go smack on some ground troops or an embarked civilian until you can heal, or wait until the "last round" of attacking to pitch in. If you capture that round, you're not subject to city fire.

You can get to sea by 1000 AD pretty easy. Plant a settler some place on the new land and you are good. There should be open spots at that date. No need to invade at all.

budweiser said:

You can get to sea by 1000 AD pretty easy. Plant a settler some place on the new land and you are good. There should be open spots at that date. No need to invade at all.

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But you face the same inefficiencies as pre-bomber conquest. Pre-bomber conquest: it takes so long and drains so many resources you might as well have waited until bombers. Settling on 1000AD: it literally takes so long for a new city settled at this point to become good that you might as well have waited until bombers and conquered an AI city. Also you messed up your Ironworks, Hermitage, and Oxford timing, and slowed your Rationalism and Ideology policy acquisition.

This is the essential truth of BNW: any expanding you do before bombers doesn't actually get you ahead compared to expanding with bombers.

But at least embarked invasions are fun. And there are rare occasions when you benefit from taking down an AI in industrial instead of atomic (when an AI on continent 2 is actually running away, or is the only obstacle to an early CV).

GhostSalsa said:

But you face the same inefficiencies as pre-bomber conquest. Pre-bomber conquest: it takes so long and drains so many resources you might as well have waited until bombers. Settling on 1000AD: it literally takes so long for a new city settled at this point to become good that you might as well have waited until bombers and conquered an AI city. Also you messed up your Ironworks, Hermitage, and Oxford timing, and slowed your Rationalism and Ideology policy acquisition.

This is the essential truth of BNW: any expanding you do before bombers doesn't actually get you ahead compared to expanding with bombers.

But at least embarked invasions are fun. And there are rare occasions when you benefit from taking down an AI in industrial instead of atomic (when an AI on continent 2 is actually running away, or is the only obstacle to an early CV).

Click to expand...

Why wait for bombers?

Blow your opponent to bits with artillery/frigates at the latest. If you wait for bombers, it'll be a much shorter time before the AI gets bombers too, and AI bombers are very annoying - they'll require you to have Ballistics, which is an even further tech. And besides, trying to cross the seas with bombers will require carriers - and at that point battleships are just as good.

If my main goal is to secure a beachhead I simply look for the weakest coastal and suckerpunch it with as many Frigates as I can. I prefer to start a fight knowing I can take at least one city within 3 turns regardless of the era I'm in. Which, on Immortal+, typically means waiting until at least Renaissance.

Also, never underestimate the power of paying their neighbor to Declare War a couple turns ahead of time, thus drawing their troops away from your target.