Merlot Mafia: Last Queen of the Amazons

That's the plan isn't it? Three votes on slaze, three on Celedorn?

Yeah, but it could still be just townies voting since we're missing 2 and I don't know what happens there (or at 4 v 4 for that matter).

ash88 said:

I thought you were arguing a different point; I thought you were saying that waiting a day increased the odds (which I disagree with).

You are saying that we have x days left, whether we vote or not.

To that I say:

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Actually I'm saying both of them. The latter without first would not give any benefit. But let's not waste time debating the proper way and choice of words for describing the upside, as I think we finally agree now on it being good. (I just want to add some words (additions underlined) to that in case someone else is still confused: "we have x days left to actively vote, whether we vote or not on one day". (Doing it twice is bad. Or after any other way there was no kill or 2 kills as a result of a vote.)

ash88 said:

The only issue now is getting everyone to refrain from voting. This is something that would be very difficult. With 0 votes anyone (including mafia) could come in and vote at the last second... with no time left we couldn't rally to get all the votes we needed in time... likewise that person could just say something like, "oh sorry, I was confused" ... and who knows, maybe they were.

Given those difficulties I wouldn't suggest we do this "abstain for a round" thing. But if everyone else said they were on board with it I would give it a try. It's probably too late to do it this round (because who knows whether everyone who has already voted will even be back to check on the forums before the vote).

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No problem, no problem at all! Just do a tie. I didn't want to do it myself, which may or may not have been a stupid thing (I assumed to die anyway on day 2, so I saw no gain in delaying that as neither alternative was a good target at that time), but you can do it now. If the leading candidates are on top of you suspect list anyway, you aren't losing much if both of them die, are you? If both or neither die, you get to odd number of people and do not need to pass.

If we implement this in any way (pass the next day or tie this day), I don't think any mafiasa would be stupid enough to paint a continent-sized bullseye on herself by (un)voting in the last minute. If she did, well, that would be a very convenient voting suggestion for everyone else the following day and I'd put the bubbly drink into cooler after seeing that happen.

landlubber said:

That's the plan isn't it? Three votes on slaze, three on Celedorn?

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No, that's slaze's plan. No one else has said they want to do this. He hasn't explained why he wants to do it either. He agreed that tying the vote doesn't accomplish anything but now continues to want to tie it anyways without explanation.

With a split vote either slaze gets out of dying or he takes someone else with him - so I'm very much against tying the vote.

My plan was to vote solely for slaze - as per my initial (long) post.

Tic0 said:

No problem, no problem at all! Just do a tie.

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I'm torn. On the one hand I see the value in Tic0's plan. On the other hand, given hes responses in this thread I highly suspect Slaze.

Tic0's plan increases the chance of voting for a mafia assuming that you are just guessing - but it doesn't take into account judging people on their actions.

Luckily I don't have to choose. I have voted for Slaze for the reasons I outlined. I think they are solid reasons. If people feel that they are solid reasons then they can vote for him as well. If people want to skip a turn to get slightly better odds at guessing then people can vote for Caledorn to tie Slaze and hope that Winston doesn't just kill them both off (because if Winston kills them both off then Tic0s plan doesnt work, correct me if I'm wrong Tic0).

So thats my stance. Lets see what happens.

ash88 said:

No, that's slaze's plan. No one else has said they want to do this. He hasn't explained why he wants to do it either. He agreed that tying the vote doesn't accomplish anything but now continues to want to tie it anyways without explanation.

With a split vote either slaze gets out of dying or he takes someone else with him - so I'm very much against tying the vote.

My plan was to vote solely for slaze - as per my initial (long) post.

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Ah, yes. With that, my vote is back on slaze.

Unvote: slaze

Vote: Caledorn

3, 3 tie.

slaze said:

Unvote: slaze

Vote: Caledorn

3, 3 tie.

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And with this I urge either of the other 2 people who have voted for me to be lynched to actually recast their vote for slaze, or the 2 people who have not yet voted to cast their vote - not because I am afraid to be lynched (I will happily die for our Queen and the other deceased innocents if that's what it takes to stabilize our nation!) - but because with this act, it seems obvious that slaze is more or less just trying to buy herself more time.

If you still think I am guilty, then by all means vote for me the next round - but please do not take the risk that the ruleset Winston is using now allows slaze to live for another round when she is more or less proving that that's what she is hoping for! Alternatively, if Winston kills off both in case of a tie, slaze will have dragged another townie with her in death - obviously she benefits from both if she is guilty!

Wait .. I just retallied the votes. This is the current situation we're looking at :

Votes for me (Caledorn) : Tboy, slaze
Votes for slaze : Ash88, Caledorn, landlubber

landlubber was the first person who voted for me this round, and then she actually voted for me once more (while still in the same round).. After that she reconsidered, after taking Ash88's point of view into account, and cast her vote for slaze instead. In other words, we're not looking at a tie at all so far.

We still lack the votes from the following Princesses though, so a tie may yet be forthcoming : mgsmuhammed, Umarth & Tegvtec

This fact does not, however, reduce my suspicion towards Princess slaze as I wrote in my former statement - as she obivously believed she was forcing a tie.. Why are you so interested in forcing a tie, Princess slaze?

slaze said:

Unvote: slaze

Vote: Caledorn

3, 3 tie.

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I saw this coming a mile away Wait, I think I said it already... oh yeah... here it was:

Ash88 said:

I will be very surprised if you continue to vote for yourself until the end. This is a fine gesture but you haven't voted for yourself until the vote is counted. Although if you change your vote for any reason now you have to realize that people are going to be damn suspicious of you.

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There are 2 more voters... I'm curious to see what happens! A vote for Slaze, or a vote for a tie?

Did anyone answer the question: Does Winston just kill both people in a tie?

Winston Hughes said:

The game has two phases:

During Day, the Town must choose someone to Lynch

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This is all I know. I don't know how the voting works and as far as I'm concerned, Winston has neither confirmed nor denied many of the things being written here. If we are forced to lynch let us do so in an organized manner, one that may ... you know ... lead us to a further understanding, or at least attempt to do so.

This seems to me like it's a binary riddle. Computer language. I could give you another one:

25 (or more) prisoners. They will each, one at a time, be led to an isolated room with no chance of communicating with their fellow prisoners except for two swiches in the room. The 2 switched each have 2 positions: up and down. The prisoners are hearded together and told of their future situation, one by one in the room, and allowed time to organize a strategy but once the first prisoner is shown inside all prisoners are separated and have no contact with each other, except for the position of the switches in the room. They are all, in any random or determined or manipulated order, led to the room where they have to move the position of a single switch and only that. Finally, the prisoners must declare that they have all been in the room at least once, and if they get the answer wrong they all die.

There's a solution to it, and it's not relying on some almost 50% odds stab at the end.

Anyway, we have to vote, so I'm just seeing if mafia votes don't count. But we'd all need to vote for that to work (if it can).

I could be totally wrong here. Maybe this is just some, personality/deception game. Either way my fate's sealed, one way or the other.

slaze said:

tion to it, and it's not relying on some almost 50% odds stab at the end.

Anyway, we have to vote, so I'm just seeing if mafia votes don't count. But we'd all need to vote for that to work (if it can).

I could be totally wrong here. Maybe this is just some, personality/deception game. Either way my fate's sealed, one way or the other.

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Huh? Princess Slaze - Winston has said mafia votes don't count. Why is your claim that you are doing all this to see if they do? You even said that you found the post where he said it!?!? That is your explanation for your odd behaviour? That you want to check if the game moderator isn't lying about how he is running the game? HuH?

Let me come up with a better lie for you. Feel free to copy and paste this:

"Well, I want to do what Tic0 suggested, but since there are already some votes we need to balance it out."

There - copy and paste that lie if you want, but this "I want to figure out if Winston is lying to us" stuff is so weak its confusing.

To Tic0: Yeah, I know that it makes sense to cancel out the vote with a tie if we were guessing, but doesn't it make sense to make an educated vote for Princess Slaze after reading this thread?? Killing a mafia now gives us more turns to abstain (since there are less mafia then townies for longer) right?

No, I'm saying this works if they don't count. I'm hoping they don't count. If you make everyone vote 4, 4 and one person dies, we will know that the vote was really 4, 3. And we will know which 4 people actually only count for 3. Next round you split those 4 with the remaining votes for a 3, 3 vote and you narrow it down to two people and after the 2, 2 vote you know who mafia is, just in time for townies to win. If we hesitate, as we are doing, we lose this opportunity and it becomes the crapshoot, as we won't have enough rounds to figure it out with certainty.

ash88 said:

If people want to skip a turn to get slightly better odds at guessing then people can vote for Caledorn to tie Slaze and hope that Winston doesn't just kill them both off (because if Winston kills them both off then Tic0s plan doesnt work, correct me if I'm wrong Tic0).

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It works even with both dying. It's like a combination of 1 normal voting day + night + passing + night = 3 dead anyway.

Hate to state the obvious... but perhaps instead of having intricate debates about percentage likelihoods and so on, we instead vote for the person who seems most likely to be the butcher of our dearest monarch? That rather seems our purpose, methinks.

I can understand abstentionism via lack of knowledge - though I still disagree with it - but not the rest of the tactics proposed. Can't see the woods for the trees, it seems.

slaze said:

No, I'm saying this works if they don't count. I'm hoping they don't count. If you make everyone vote 4, 4 and one person dies, we will know that the vote was really 4, 3. And we will know which 4 people actually only count for 3. Next round you split those 4 with the remaining votes for a 3, 3 vote and you narrow it down to two people and after the 2, 2 vote you know who mafia is, just in time for townies to win. If we hesitate, as we are doing, we lose this opportunity and it becomes the crapshoot, as we won't have enough rounds to figure it out with certainty.

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Slaze: We know that they DO count. The moderator has stated so.

After the poker dealer explains to you that you get 2 cards do you still wonder if you are going to get 3?

After Milton Bradley explains to you that you got to Jail when you land on "Go To Jail" do you sit there wondering whether you will indeed go to Jail?

After the referee explains to you that you need to get the puck in the net to score a goal in hockey do you try to convince your team to shoot it outside the net to see if you still get a goal?

In Civ 4 do you doubt that the red circle means that your warrior can't enter an ocean square - or do you repeatedly try to see if it can anyways?

With the ridiculousness of your argument I'm just going to assume that you are a mafia and you have been so completely caught that your web of lies cannot be sustained anymore, so you have near-given up. I'll tell you what, since you are caught anyways just admit it. You know, show some class. Come back with a triumphant, "Ok, you got me, but before I die I will give an evil villain speech... mwhahahahahahha..."

That would be cool.

Tboy said:

Hate to state the obvious... but perhaps instead of having intricate debates about percentage likelihoods and so on, we instead vote for the person who seems most likely to be the butcher of our dearest monarch? That rather seems our purpose, methinks.

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I'm torn myself. It's the internal struggle between doing the thing your head knows is right versus doing the thing your gut tells you is right.

That said, even the worlds best detectives don't go out and arrest people without a strategy.

Ahh well... this round is easy, and I suspect that the remaining mafia are looking forward to gutting me like a stock pig.... so I doubt I will have to think about who I will vote for much longer

Tic0 said:

It works even with both dying. It's like a combination of 1 normal voting day + night + passing + night = 3 dead anyway.

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So if there are 8 total people now, and we kill 2 people off, and the mafia kills a person off, that means that we will have 5 people (2 of which are potentially mafia). At that point we would have 2 votes total left.

If we didn't kill anyone off this turn, and the mafia kills 1 person we would have 7 people left (2 of which are potentially mafia). At that point we would have 3 votes left.

So we do not want to kill off 2 people because we will have one less total vote.

@Everybody

I have guests this evening, so I'm going to extend the day by a few hours.

@ash

Remember, this is a friendly game. Let's not be over-aggressive in our criticisms of other players' ideas please.

Winston Hughes said:

@ash

Remember, this is a friendly game. Let's not be over-aggressive in our criticisms of other players' ideas please.

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If I'm coming off that way it's only because I haven't put the smileys that people have (unfortunately) come to rely on to communicate tone in forum posts. As you read above I haven't said anything that is aggresive.