New NESes, ideas, development, etc

erez87 said:
Modern Algae and Sponges only seem simple to us. They are themselves rather complex creatures...
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Pretty sure there are indeed simplistic algae and sponges hanging around, champ.

I mean, yes, they're complex in an absolute sense, just like any living thing is immensely complex when you compare it to an inanimate object. But LifeNESes deal with creatures relative to one another, so simple creatures should still be chilling.
 
North King said:
Pretty sure there are indeed simplistic algae and sponges hanging around, champ.

I mean, yes, they're complex in an absolute sense, just like any living thing is immensely complex when you compare it to an inanimate object. But LifeNESes deal with creatures relative to one another, so simple creatures should still be chilling.
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They had the same time to evolve as we did. And they evolved some very special things. Like toxicity...
 
erez87 said:
They had the same time to evolve as we did. And they evolved some very special things. Like toxicity...
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Obviously they had the same time to evolve in. But evolution doesn't work that way. If a mutation isn't beneficial it's not going to get passed on. Hence why some creatures can survive "unchanged" for millions of years (again, obviously not literally so, but functionally).
 
North King said:
Obviously they had the same time to evolve in. But evolution doesn't work that way. If a mutation isn't beneficial it's not going to get passed on. Hence why some creatures can survive "unchanged" for millions of years (again, obviously not literally so, but functionally).
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It's called Genetic Flow, when a non beneficial and even somewhat bad mutation gets passed and even take over a population.

Sponges changed A LOT. To begin with I would bet on whether or not Sponges of today can mate with Sponges of 500 million years ago (Saying they won't be able to mate). They evolved their own special things like cells that move around the Sponge and change into the other cells all through its life. Sponges are immortal. Toxicity beyond any other living being as far as I know.
 
erez87 said:
It's called Genetic Flow, when a non beneficial and even somewhat bad mutation gets passed and even take over a population.

Sponges changed A LOT. To begin with I would bet on whether or not Sponges of today can mate with Sponges of 500 million years ago (Saying they won't be able to mate). They evolved their own special things like cells that move around the Sponge and change into the other cells all through its life. Sponges are immortal. Toxicity beyond any other living being as far as I know.
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Good lord, I didn't say they never changed. I'm taking issue with your ludicrous idea that they're as complex as all other life that has so far evolved.
 
Daftpanzer said:
Alright so I'm not going to launch another NESLife unless I can get my other NES updated reliably. But, I do have some things I'd like to see in a future evolution game:

Gene shifting: I really think it would be a good idea to be able to shift 'genes' between related actions, limited to one level at a time, in addition to adding from scratch. For example, one level of 'crawling' could be shifted to one level of 'swimming', while other genes could be added in the same turn. In the real world, we have evolution shifting between carnivorous and herbivorous diets without having to evolve a whole new digestive system from scratch. And limbs can be adapted for new purposes. Etc etc. Our body parts are far more often adapted from other uses. IMO it removes a handicap to creative species branching. I know there is the potential for arguments here, so it could be a 'think about this additional request' rather than a 'give me this' kinda deal.

Species-specific evolution bonus: in addition to player bonus, some species could grant more 'genes' for anyone who evolves them. Basically, older species that are widespread and well established in the world, having had more time for latent mutations to develop. Thus there would be more incentive to branch these older species and less incentive to only evolve from the latest, most gene-laden creatures. Also, species that are under attack from lots of predators could get a bonus due to the 'evolutionary pressure'.

Efficiency: simple, effective creatures should have more of a chance to survive. Both myself and Tux fell into the trap of killing off basic critters. In our world, we still have sponges and algae hanging around. I think a simple creature with good feeding abilities relative to its complexity should always do well. And we should bear in mind that a more complex creature is probably a much better meal for a predator. In both my NESLife3 and Tux's NES we have ramped up the complexity in a few turns without having improved the feeding abilities. So there should be more reward for doing so IMO. Its the same pattern of players in an arms race with claws and poison spikes etc, while in reality a feed and breed strategy leads to the biggest numbers, updates should reflect this.

PS: @flyingchicken that does look intresting!
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Go already!
 
Hmm, those all seem like good ideas Daft- I have a few others I'll add after my exams are finished, but in general, faster-reproducing species should be able to evolve faster, and energy-efficiency should be paramount. A major unreality of LifeNESes is how there is only very rarely situations where players are encouraged to drop genes. Perhaps the flaw is in the quantitative genetic system itself- maybe a better way to describe it would be a qualitative system describing a creature's weapons, defenses, senses, reproductive strategies, behaviours, digestive systems, or what have you. Really, the most genes for evolution should come from an old, populous species that is subjected to a heavy selective pressure.
 
My greatest hesitation towards running my own LifeNES- and I tried once at the cellular stage, which was a bit of a bad idea- is that since it's my own area of study, I'd get a bit too bogged down in the details.
 
I'd have to say I like the idea of gene-swapping and species bonus vs player bonus. As far as efficiency I recognized after the first couple updates that I was letting the top-level predators determine who survived below them, forcing their prey to adapt faster to it. I'm trying to adjust that behavior slowly now without killing off everybody for only having 1 level of food eating.

I will say though, one reason I think NesLife 3 did so well was the gamey nature of the genetic system. It made it easy to grasp without getting too bogged down.
 
So, I didn't get the stats fixed for pieces, they were just getting too ungainly for any number of reasons. I decided that to reopen it properly I would have to rework a lot of the standing rules. I didn't really want to keep patching on rules and promoting an environment of uncertainty though.

I decided to rework some of the rules anyways, about military, what sort of stats are listed, and re-envisioned the whole thing as a pure fresh start. It's neat, check it out.

Especially the football shaped map of the old world.
 
Im planning on coming back... Hi!
 
I am sorry to say that I find the Warhammer Nes somewhat unworkable and something I really dont fancy reprising at the current time...... Having said that I am in the process of constructing (using the Northern style modern borders map from the Map thread... so thanks to those whom have had hand in constructing this map), a nes based around the year 2100ish in which its a world where the Chinese economic dominance has started to translate into real military reach and thus the world is no longer unipolar... I am going to launch this with a fairly detailed timeline that will give enough background for players to sink their teeth into, and will be based on some of my personal theories and those of some of the other academics that I'm studying with.

Of course with all predictive analysis, this is not an exact science however, and in fact the unpredictability of International Relations is what can make it so interesting.

Some of the ideas for the timeline Ive had so far are

- The complete devolution of the United Kingdom (which in reality is a matter of time)
- The dissolution of Belguim and the creation of Brussels as a City State and capital of an only slightly more unified European Union
- The creation of Kurdistan in the Mid East.
- The reunification of Korea.
- The independence of Mindano
- The independence of Darfur.
- The independence of Greenland
- Resolution of the Somali conflict and the recognition of Somaliland and Puntland.

This is to but name a few..... At this stage I will probably not launch this nes before New Years, so if anyone has any sensible ideas of what could happen in the next 90-odd years, feel free to PM me (so we dont end up hijacking this thread)... Especially with technological progression as I admit this is one area that is not my personal forte.
 
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