Pre-modern warfare

JohnBlack

Chieftain
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Oct 10, 2011
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Regardless of who's right and who's wrong in the heated debate about AI aggression in BNW, I believe it would create and interesting game dynamic if warfare became more lucrative.

In the absence of a credible deterrent, possible repercussions, and legal/economic sanctions imposed by other alliances/the international community, it is my opinion that the potential gains of war/conquest - and especially in pre-modern times - should be far greater than the potential gains of trade.

For instance, I think potential gains from war should/could include:

Plundering
When a city is taken, and option to plunder the city should be made available. Plundering will cause city to decrease in population, while resulting in the destruction of buildings, wonders, and works of art.

Gold: Size of loot should depend on size of city, city's gold production, and the total gold, as well as total gold of civ. Total size of loot may be larger than the amount of gold stolen directly from the other civ's treasury. It would simply not be realistic if all the gold available to a civ equals all the gold that exists throughout the empire.

Works of art: If not destroyed during the raid, there should be a small chance that "plundering" also results in captured works of art. This obviously depends on whether the plundering civ has any empty slots, and whether the city being plundered contains any works of art.

Enslavement
When a city is taken from another civ, there should be an option to enslave parts of the city's population. Choosing "enslavement" will increase the production of targeted cities that belong to the conquering civ, either in terms of a larger sum of hammers (similar to what happens when forest tiles are chopped down), or in terms of increased production per turn for a finite number of turns. Number of citizens possible to enslave will depend on size of city. Let's say you can enslave half the population, bringing a city of six down to three.

Other suggestions include more elaborate peace settlements, tech theft, and forcing civs to pay tribute. If they are willing to risk war, tributary civs should be given the opportunity to break free from their obligations whenever they so desire. Tributary relations can be renegotiated, and last until they are broken by either party.

Please consider, these are only initial thoughts. Many details remain. But I do think we ought to remember that warfare used to be a highly profitable business exactly because kings/emperors/generals afforded conquered armies and their peoples very limited empathy. Triumph in battle meant the gods had been good.

To the victor belong the spoils.
 
There definitely should be better initial rewards making conquest a more attractive option than it is. Especially given the change to Autocracy that completely removes the Culture plunder from the game. I think that should be thrown into Honor somewhere, as well as a doubling of gold gains from plundering a city.
 
Agree. I want a more brutal Civilization. I want slavery, starvation tactics, displacement of entire populations (ethnic groups), and extermination.

By displacement, I mean replacing the original population of a city with your own, chasing the former out. This should cause a bump in number of citizens for surrounding "friendly" cities due to refugee flows, with unhappiness and unrest as a consequence.

Losing a city to another civ should hurt more than just economically, and razing cities to the ground, killing everyone in it, should have graver consequences for your reputation than what is currently the case.
 
On a side note, I'd like the option to capture a city with minimal collateral damage and no plunder if I wish to liberate it or grow it as a part of my empire.
 
theres already city plundering and tribute in the game.
iirc if you demand something and they give it to you, you cant declare war for X turns

enslavement is interesting. i tried to make a slavery mod though there were problems with AI, it wont use slaves (you get slave units on city capture and also on city razing and can use them to hurry production, like GEs but for much fewer hammers).
 
The plunder mechanic is a way to slow down warmongers; You have to stop and consolidate. keeping cities intact is OP.

The city would have to be in revolt significantly longer if you want that to happen. (among other adjustments that would have to be done)
 
The plunder mechanic is a way to slow down warmongers; You have to stop and consolidate. keeping cities intact is OP.

The city would have to be in revolt significantly longer if you want that to happen. (among other adjustments that would have to be done)

Not into internet/forum slang. What does OP mean?

If by slowing down you mean that troops will be temporarily busy, then yes, but that goes for taking cities in general. At some point you will be forced to heal your troops.

Agree, but let the city revolt. Why that should affect your happiness, only those that emphasize some obscure game mechanic over realism know. As long as you don't puppet or annex, I see no reason why the unhappiness of some foreign population living in a distant city should have any affect on your empire's happiness.
 
Not into internet/forum slang. What does OP mean?

If by slowing down you mean that troops will be temporarily busy, then yes, but that goes for taking cities in general. At some point you will be forced to heal your troops.

Agree, but let the city revolt. Why that should affect your happiness, only those that emphasize some obscure game mechanic over realism know. As long as you don't puppet or annex, I see no reason why the unhappiness of some foreign population living in a distant city should have any affect on your empire's happiness.

OP = over powered;

Destroying most of the city's infrastructure is a small trade off; it sets you back a little.
 
Nice ideas.

I think controling a recently conquered city should be kept hard as is for most civs. However I'd love it if more options on what to do with a city were unlockable under the Honor tree, more effective plundering of cities, better heal and yield for pillaging or even gaining triumphal arch in the capital after taking out a civ.

Going Honor should reward constantly winning wars, as it is now, you war early and the world will hate you forever. It would make playing Rome, actually feel like Rome.
 
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