City State Diplomacy Mod (Updated)

This is part of my mod. I buffed C-Ss (perhaps too much?) to compensate for lack of gold-gifting in the early game and to make them less juicy targets for the more aggressive civs. If movement becomes a major problem I can tone done C-S gold production to force them to have smaller armies.

G

Finally got my new game going! Settings: Random leader (got Darius, so no complaints), CCMAT v10, large tectonics mapscript (love with that mod! Having an interesting map is so important to me), specialized barbs mod (figure I'd give it a shot), immortal (First time!), standard time. (I'm at t80 now.)
Managed to grab two of Harun's Messengers that were captured by barbs on their way past me to Stockholm, but the CS has such a large army (probably because there was a barb camp right next to them) that I cannot enter it's territory! Arg, my messengers have been camped out for like 15 turns. Granted, it's a maritime, so it doesn't have many land tiles ATM, but it is kind of frustrating. So, maybe you could tone down the buff a bit.;)
 
Finally got my new game going! Settings: Random leader (got Darius, so no complaints), CCMAT v10, large tectonics mapscript (love with that mod! Having an interesting map is so important to me), specialized barbs mod (figure I'd give it a shot), immortal (First time!), standard time. (I'm at t80 now.)
Managed to grab two of Harun's Messengers that were captured by barbs on their way past me to Stockholm, but the CS has such a large army (probably because there was a barb camp right next to them) that I cannot enter it's territory! Arg, my messengers have been camped out for like 15 turns. Granted, it's a maritime, so it doesn't have many land tiles ATM, but it is kind of frustrating. So, maybe you could tone down the buff a bit.;)

C-Ss start with a handful of gold (300g, I think), to give them a boost– those units will disappear as their economy tanks. Usually they get back down to normal levels by 500AD.

I'll tweak the Gold modifier down a bit (you can do it in your own XML- it won't break your current game. Put the MINOR_CIV_GOLD_PERCENT (in the Influence.xml) on about 170 or 175. That will help almost immediately.

Maritime C-Ss are so unpredictable...one game they suck, the next they are kick-ass...
G
 
C-Ss start with a handful of gold (300g, I think), to give them a boost– those units will disappear as their economy tanks. Usually they get back down to normal levels by 500AD.

I'll tweak the Gold modifier down a bit (you can do it in your own XML- it won't break your current game. Put the MINOR_CIV_GOLD_PERCENT (in the Influence.xml) on about 170 or 175. That will help almost immediately.

Maritime C-Ss are so unpredictable...one game they suck, the next they are kick-ass...
G

This is a weird game:lol: - so much warmongering with Nappy and Harun for millennia! I've barely explored anything and only have had contact with two CSs. My diplo vicory seems to be a lost hope, so I may start another game. For testing purposes of course!:p
Anyway, Stockholm has decided on naval superiority now: it has about ten triremes now, just sitting there! So I went to adjust the xml file you mentioned but I can't find it. Which folder is it in?
 
This is a weird game:lol: - so much warmongering with Nappy and Harun for millennia! I've barely explored anything and only have had contact with two CSs. My diplo vicory seems to be a lost hope, so I may start another game. For testing purposes of course!:p
Anyway, Stockholm has decided on naval superiority now: it has about ten triremes now, just sitting there! So I went to adjust the xml file you mentioned but I can't find it. Which folder is it in?

Its in the Gameplay/CityStates.xml file. Adjust it to 175-180 and see if you like it.

Essentially this modifier reduces C-S gold production efficiency by 175% to keep them from having massive armies/navies. I'm sure there is a deeper algorithm there, but that's the basic idea (vanilla value is '200' for reference).

G
 
Its in the Gameplay/CityStates.xml file. Adjust it to 175-180 and see if you like it.

Essentially this modifier reduces C-S gold production efficiency by 175% to keep them from having massive armies/navies. I'm sure there is a deeper algorithm there, but that's the basic idea (vanilla value is '200' for reference).

G

It's set at 150, if I'm reading it correctly. (The value above the line, yes?) Perhaps I'll lower it a bit anyway.
 
3.0 posted- now with French language support and slightly weaker city-states.

New Questions for my loyal mod-users:

1.) Should the United Nations be available sooner? Where? When? Is globalization too late? (Considering the ACTUAL UN was started in '45?)

2.) Are units too cheap/expensive? Are the promotions beneficial or too weak?

3.) How's the artwork? Confusing? Titillating? Exciting?

4.) Do you want any new units/buildings added to this mod that would make this mod even better?

Discuss!
 
1.) Should the United Nations be available sooner? Where? When? Is globalization too late? (Considering the ACTUAL UN was started in '45?)

I think that perhaps teching as a whole should be rebalanced, but that is not easy to say which era or how.
My idea is that small nations should be good at teching,
which means that tech city specialists should make more, much more beakers, and perhaps the academy improvement also.

Now I am playing the Shiggs Earth map on KIng level, and by 1940 I have radio, and I am among the well developed civs...

UN wonder: perhaps to Mass Media?

2.) Are units too cheap/expensive? Are the promotions beneficial or too weak?

You mean the diplo units?
I will have a closer look at them, but they seem to be OK.
Maybe the first tier (messenger) could be cheaper...?

As of units in general:
I dunno, but AI is lame in my game now: it does not upgrade??
in the 1900s, civs do wars with archers and spears, swords...!! (Ottomans, Germans...)

3.) How's the artwork? Confusing? Titillating? Exciting?

I love the dove icons, and the units are also OK.
An idea: can the units evolve like Great Persons? To use horse cart, later cars...

4.) Do you want any new units/buildings added to this mod that would make this mod even better?

I will think of it.

a special idea:

Snipperrabbit! here proposes to have a unit layer called AUXILIARY,
which could be for ranged units, so it could be a simple and cool 2UPT system.
Can it be done with the mod tools now?
If yes, I would change range to 1 hex, and perhaps move points also to be less in general...
(so the map would look bigger, and better scaled)
 
Hi
I'd like to know better how this mod works before installing it.
So what is the purpose of those diplomatic units? Do I send them inside a CS and get influence for that? Do they disappear afterwards?
(sorry if this has been explained before, I don't have the time to go through 12 pages of posts).
thanks
 
Hi
I'd like to know better how this mod works before installing it.
So what is the purpose of those diplomatic units? Do I send them inside a CS and get influence for that? Do they disappear afterwards?
(sorry if this has been explained before, I don't have the time to go through 12 pages of posts).
thanks

Yes.
You (and AI) train diplo units, move them to CS area, do diplo action and get influence, and they disappear.
You cannot get influence by money, only for steep high price (thousands of gold)

As you develop in tech,
you get faster and more diplo units possible, plus buildings to make training easier.

AI uses diplo units quite heavily,
in my game with ca. 16 civs and 24(?) CSs I manage to hold 5-6 as allies...
...those that are relatively close to me in geography...
 
I think that perhaps teching as a whole should be rebalanced, but that is not easy to say which era or how.
My idea is that small nations should be good at teching,
which means that tech city specialists should make more, much more beakers, and perhaps the academy improvement also.

Now I am playing the Shiggs Earth map on KIng level, and by 1940 I have radio, and I am among the well developed civs...

UN wonder: perhaps to Mass Media?



You mean the diplo units?
I will have a closer look at them, but they seem to be OK.
Maybe the first tier (messenger) could be cheaper...?

As of units in general:
I dunno, but AI is lame in my game now: it does not upgrade??
in the 1900s, civs do wars with archers and spears, swords...!! (Ottomans, Germans...)



I love the dove icons, and the units are also OK.
An idea: can the units evolve like Great Persons? To use horse cart, later cars...



I will think of it.

a special idea:

Snipperrabbit! here proposes to have a unit layer called AUXILIARY,
which could be for ranged units, so it could be a simple and cool 2UPT system.
Can it be done with the mod tools now?
If yes, I would change range to 1 hex, and perhaps move points also to be less in general...
(so the map would look bigger, and better scaled)

Lots of fun ideas here, V. Soma. I think I might try moving the UN to Mass Media just to see what happens. Especially now that the game requires more time to win diplo, it might be nice to have a little more time to actually collect all of those city-state alliances you need.

Some things (like aux. 2UPT) are a wee bit outside of the scope of this mod, but interesting nonetheless. Perhaps some day?

Also, you answered mihaifx's question perfectly, thanks for that!

G
 
3.0 posted- now with French language support and slightly weaker city-states.

New Questions for my loyal mod-users:

1.) Should the United Nations be available sooner? Where? When? Is globalization too late? (Considering the ACTUAL UN was started in '45?)

1. Well, I played for a good long while yesterday, and due to a compatibility issue within CCMAT (city defense buffs multiplying) and very aggressive AI I fell somewhat behind in tech, so I haven't gotten to Globalization. Never found it to be badly placed in other games though.

2.) Are units too cheap/expensive? Are the promotions beneficial or too weak?

I think they are pretty well balanced now, maybe the costs could come up a little. The scaled promotions are good so far.

3.) How's the artwork? Confusing? Titillating? Exciting?

The differing unit colors work well - never any confusion between them, but you see immediately when it's a new unit type available in the queue. I feel the building art could use some tweaking, as it doesn't fit very well with the other icons (maybe increase the color saturation?)

4.) Do you want any new units/buildings added to this mod that would make this mod even better?

Discuss!

Haven't noticed a need for this yet, if something comes to mind I'll mention it.

BTW, the CS gold setting at 175 was right on the money.;) The CSs retained a respectable military without going overboard (I kill me!:lol:) with the triremes.

Great work, G!
 
can I repeat my idea (qustion):

can the units (graphically) evolve like Great Persons (according to era)?
To use horse cart, later cars...
 
I played this mod last night, my first mod ever for any civ game. It made it interesting and more difficult in my case. It almost felt like I had to dedicate one city to spawning diplo units.

I do have a question: I was allied with a CS and then lost it to another civ, I fired up another diplo just in case, but couldn't win it back. I had way beyond max culture for that CS. I know the other civ made a pact of protection before I lost the CS, does protecting the CS give them so many culture points that I may not win them back over? How can I become allies with them again?
 
can I repeat my idea (qustion):

can the units (graphically) evolve like Great Persons (according to era)?
To use horse cart, later cars...

I've thought about it, but I'm not sure what unit I would use to replace the current set. All horse units have weapons in their hands and I don't want to use the GP models because they aren't easy to distinguish from the actual GPs.

I'd have to model new units from scratch, which is a fairly time-consuming (and currently quite difficult) process. Once the kinks are ironed out of the Civ4-->Civ5 unit conversion process I might pillage something from Civ4.

The units are different for each era, so for now that will have to do until I can find a better solution.
 
1. Well, I played for a good long while yesterday, and due to a compatibility issue within CCMAT (city defense buffs multiplying) and very aggressive AI I fell somewhat behind in tech, so I haven't gotten to Globalization. Never found it to be badly placed in other games though.



I think they are pretty well balanced now, maybe the costs could come up a little. The scaled promotions are good so far.



The differing unit colors work well - never any confusion between them, but you see immediately when it's a new unit type available in the queue. I feel the building art could use some tweaking, as it doesn't fit very well with the other icons (maybe increase the color saturation?)



Haven't noticed a need for this yet, if something comes to mind I'll mention it.

BTW, the CS gold setting at 175 was right on the money.;) The CSs retained a respectable military without going overboard (I kill me!:lol:) with the triremes.

Great work, G!

Awesome, glad that 175 was correct.

I might try upping the 'pop' of the forum/foreign office. Both pieces are period artwork (forum from 17th century Dutch painting, foreign office from british newspaper print ca. 1820), and haven't aged well color-wise. I'll see what I can do.

I think I'll leave the units at their current prices, considering that V.Soma wants them lowered and you want them raised! :lol: Consensus FTW.

Finally, I think I will move the UN to Mass Media because, that way, it will be apparent by turn 420-30 or so who is trying for a diplo. victory (around the same time as others are finishing the apollo program) and it will also give access to the super-powerful ambassador unit.

One interesting addition might be the creation a new, even-better-than-the-ambassador unit available at Stealth tech that is fast (movement of 10-12), invisible and can paradrop. What do you think?

G
 
I played this mod last night, my first mod ever for any civ game. It made it interesting and more difficult in my case. It almost felt like I had to dedicate one city to spawning diplo units.

I do have a question: I was allied with a CS and then lost it to another civ, I fired up another diplo just in case, but couldn't win it back. I had way beyond max culture for that CS. I know the other civ made a pact of protection before I lost the CS, does protecting the CS give them so many culture points that I may not win them back over? How can I become allies with them again?

To gain an alliance with a CS, you have to have more than the rival civ, even if its above 120. What happened was the rival civ probably sent two or more diplo units to the CS and had more than 55 influence points higher than you. Thus, when you sent your unit, you did narrow the gap between your influence and the AIs, but the AI still had more than you.

The AI can be brutal with diplo units, especially on Deity (I played that the other night- Alexander had 9 allies out of 18!!)

Glad you like it! It is more challenging, but it adds a much-needed bit of micro to the game (in my opinion).

G
 
So, this is really an issue that covers more than just this mod, but I figured I'd post it here...

In my game as Greece, I'm running CCMAT v9, this mod (I think I'm using v10) and the Courthouse tweak.

I have random events turned on, which at times gives you a 'free' tile. However, a bug with the random events mod means that if you capture or even eliminate a civ that has had one of these 'free' tiles, that tile will not change ownership.

I've had this happen in this game, as I eliminated Washington, yet one tile remains that he received from a random event. As a result, Geneva remains allied with America. Never mind that America is ashes. At the point of having 123 influence with Geneva, I still hadn't supplanted America as Geneva's ally. It actually took another mission and getting to 173 influence before I was able to get allied!

Obviously, the tile issue is not related to this mod and perhaps this won't be an issue with the current version, but I did want to bring it to your attention...
 
So, this is really an issue that covers more than just this mod, but I figured I'd post it here...

In my game as Greece, I'm running CCMAT v9, this mod (I think I'm using v10) and the Courthouse tweak.

I have random events turned on, which at times gives you a 'free' tile. However, a bug with the random events mod means that if you capture or even eliminate a civ that has had one of these 'free' tiles, that tile will not change ownership.

I've had this happen in this game, as I eliminated Washington, yet one tile remains that he received from a random event. As a result, Geneva remains allied with America. Never mind that America is ashes. At the point of having 123 influence with Geneva, I still hadn't supplanted America as Geneva's ally. It actually took another mission and getting to 173 influence before I was able to get allied!

Obviously, the tile issue is not related to this mod and perhaps this won't be an issue with the current version, but I did want to bring it to your attention...

This happened in my game too. Took out Harun leaving him with one colonial city - after which of course he wouldn't open borders to me. The popped tile was a chokepoint between me and Nappy which lead to some annoying naval invasions! I eventually DOWed on Harun again just so I could pass the tile.

Interesting that there isn't a city/capitol requirement for CS alliance. Guess the dev's never foresaw a situation like this arising.

Anyway, as you said, this definitely seems like a bug with the random events mod and *not* related to this mod. I suggest we head over to that thread and make a report there.

EDIT: Report made on Random Events Mod thread.
 
That's an odd situation, and definitely related to the random events mod. There should be an easy tag that says something like 'if civ=no capital, delete culture tiles' or something.


I'd love to mod in a way to see a rival civ's influence in a CS, but I'm not sure how. I'll PM Onni (DiploWillard creator) and see if he knows how to pull that info out with LUA.

Would be nice to tie it to a unit or to a policy, but that might be above the capacity of our current modding situation.
 
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