Kazakhstan Diplomacy

I would refrain from responding for now. Let's wait until we play our next turn and if by some luck we meet another team, then we can renegotiate. If we don't meet another team during our next turn ... what do we do?
I think we should try to negotiate with them to research a different, more useful tech. Maths would be a good one, but they may be researching that themselves. I'll have to look at the tech tree to check.

By the way, I just had a weird thought - I don't think their beaker costs are correct for our particular game. I'll check this later.

Accept and then stab them in the back asap
:lol:

It's going to make it harder to stab them in the back if we push them ahead in tech first though... ;)
 
We get sailing for free... And while we research archery we build up units and look for there territory, and instaid of giving them archery we stack a bunch of troops outside their borders and.. reneglate the deal . Sounds good to me. Actualy them having archery is great for us (see "Immortals")
 
It's going to take a significant amount of time to find their territory, much more to build up an army and send it over. Plus we aren't really in a position to do that at the moment.

We've got to be patient and bide our time. The time will come when we'll be able to attack someone, it just won't be for a while. :)
 
Beaker costs are not right for our current setup, but I think they're "base beakers" so their relative value is correct.

Overall deal isn't acceptable. I would consider it, if we could get following things also:
* Mad scientist research alpha and give it to HBR or alternatively find someone else to trade HBR with
* We get IW before HBR has been researched e.g. after archery
 
Accept, tell them to gift us both iron working & sailing first, then research something else, while we pretend we research what they want. We would get some cool 300 free beakers. Go us. Plus, we don't wanna trade with them again.

If they act like asses, we should pretend to accept, but really, backstab them.
 
Beaker costs are not right for our current setup, but I think they're "base beakers" so their relative value is correct.
Yeah, but the 10 beaker difference in their favour will be expanded into a bigger difference - that was my problem. ;)

Overall deal isn't acceptable. I would consider it, if we could get following things also:
* Mad scientist research alpha and give it to HBR or alternatively find someone else to trade HBR with
* We get IW before HBR has been researched e.g. after archery
Indeed. So we need to hear back from MS soon... heh, well we can hope. :p

Accept, tell them to gift us both iron working & sailing first, then research something else, while we pretend we research what they want. We would get some cool 300 free beakers. Go us. Plus, we don't wanna trade with them again.

If they act like asses, we should pretend to accept, but really, backstab them.
I really don't think that's a great idea. Kaz would be sure to spread the world of our betrayal, and we may find it harder to earn the trust of other teams in the future. Besides, we never know when we might need to trade with Kaz again, so no point in souring relations with them forever. :)
 
Yeah, breaking your word in general is a pretty bad idea... sure you gain 300 free beakers, but you'll lose your reputation in the game and no one will trust you. (and they'd be sure to spread the word around)
 
Yep, exactly. 300 free beakers now isn't worth the loss of thousands of beakers later (not to mention inviting ourselves to be dogpiled by untrusting teams). ;)
 
We can explain why we did that. I'm sure they could agree with us. No one likes jackasses.
 
Eh? Exactly how would we explain it? Whatever way you look at it, it's cheating another team. We'd be the jackasses in everyone else's eyes. Doesn't matter how far ahead or behind they are, they'd see it that way. Any sensible team is going to think, "well, if they cheated that other team, why wouldn't they cheat us too?"... and then we lose out on potential trades. ;)
 
Alright, so we need to at least be polite and send a reply. What do we want to say?

My thoughts:

- Maybe we should set our sights on a smaller initial deal, such as Archery for Sailing. We could tell Kaz we'll repay the beaker difference at a later date. Shall we enquire about this?

- We could ask for more time to consider the HBR for IW deal (we need to check that MS would be willing to research and trade Alphabet for HBR first).

- We can request that IW be sent straight-up in return for HBR later.

- We can place strict trade restrictions for them on HBR (so they're not permitted to trade it onwards to another team for a significant period of time).

- We could ask if we could offer something other than HBR for IW (like Maths).

Thoughts? :)
 
Something like this?

Greetings Kazakhstan,

We are interested in your offer of trade. We would however like to propose the following alternative (with beaker costs corrected for our game):

- Saturn: Archery (89 beakers) vs Kazakhstan: Sailing (149 beakers)
- Saturn: Mathematics (373 beakers) vs Kazakhstan: Iron Working (299 beakers)

The 14 beaker difference in this trade could either (a) be obligated to be repaid by Kazakhstan to Saturn on a later trade, or (b) be ignored IF Kazakhstan will send Sailing and Iron Working in advance of receiving Archery and Mathematics.

Alternatively, if you do not need Mathematics from us, we could agree to a smaller deal for the moment:

- Saturn: Archery (89 beakers) vs Kazakhstan: Sailing (149 beakers)

If you agreed to this deal instead of the larger one, then we would owe you 60 beakers which we could repay in a later trade.

Please let us know what you think. :)

Kind regards,
Lord Parkin of Saturn
No need to tell them how soon we'll get Maths yet - besides, it's unlikely they won't already be researching it (or have arranged another trade).

I also didn't bother including terms of trade restrictions because we'll want to be retrading the techs that we get, so it would be hypocritical to expect them not to retrade the techs we give them. And anyway, Maths is a fairly common tech to be researched early, so Kaz will be unlikely to be able to trade it around much.

Let me know what you guys think - if everyone is happy I'll send this off in around 14 hours. :)
 
yeah...think thats the best deal we could get from kaz, and a nice hint of arrogance as well ;) serves them right
 
Message seems good. However assuming this probably doesn't get accepted, because they almost certainly are going to get Maths one way or the other soon. We could also offer this trade of smaller scale:

- Maybe we should set our sights on a smaller initial deal, such as Archery for Sailing. We could tell Kaz we'll repay the beaker difference at a later date. Shall we enquire about this?
 
Message seems good. However assuming this probably doesn't get accepted, because they almost certainly are going to get Maths one way or the other soon. We could also offer this trade of smaller scale:
Good point. Edited that into the message above. Will send in about 8 hours if there are no other comments. :)
 
Sent message as above. :)
 
From Kazakhstan... a week later. :crazyeye:

Hi Lord Parkin of Saturn!

We are sorry but we are not interested in math. We are interested in having compass or metal casting though. Would you be interested in researching one of these after archery? We would give you sailing and iron working up front for your promise to send archery and then compass (or metal casting depending on which we agree on) as you learn them. If we agree to such a deal we'd like to know your estimate as to when you'd be able to complete the tech research. Are you already working on archery or are you researching something else?

Looking forward to hearing back from you,
donsig of Kazakhstan
 
Archery is very cheap, should only take like 2 turns to research, so I don't mind doing that. Archers aren't bad. As for the other options, metal casting is another handy technology that would be worthwhile even after the trade. Compass... ehh doesn't really excite me as much.

However Metal Casting + Archery (510 beakers) isn't close to Sailing + Iron Working. (300 beakers) Do we have any better suggestions of extra or more expensive techs that they have we could trade for? I don't mind waiting until we finish Metal Casting in return for an equally expensively tech (as opposed to getting a rip-off deal early).
 
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